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Dear Cadene, I assure you that you are so very right. I have always believed that the Gospel is so very simple that even an 8 year old child can believe and understand it. We complicate things. I had recently read of a young women who promptly left the church after hearing of the Book of Abraham controversy. I wanted to make sure that the B of A had a “fair trial” and that I was not being a “hang ’em high” mob/jury. My mind is simple open to all of the explanations that have been put forth.
Dear Ray, You have helped us all out many times. Now here’s our chance to help you. I’m tired and I don’t have any spiritual advice at the moment, but here is the best I can do:
I’m sending you an “electronic stress kit”. Contents:
1) full box of twinkies – minus one(because I ate it). If you do anything rash that ends in your arrest, you will always be able to use the famous “Twinkie Defense”.
Directions: eat one twinkie every hour until the box is gone
2) Preprinted, ready-to-use suicide notes. All you have to do is check the box(s) that apply
I am doing this because my of
my girlfriend drove me to it
my wife drove me to it
my ex-wife drove me it
my WIVES drove me to it
Here’s hoping that this “spiritual” advice helps.
This is a quote from John, Chapter 15, King James Version of the Bible: As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10: If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.
11: These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12: This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13: Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14: Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
15: Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
16: Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
17: These things I command you, that ye love one another.
Suppose that we all committed to obey the Lord and totally live the law of chastity and moral purity. We could then refer to each other as “friends” as Christ referred to those who were obedient to Him. I also love they way that Christ treated women with titles of respect and equality. He did not think of them as “servants”, but “friends”. How beautiful.
I prefer the term, “human being”, I so dislike labels and terms that define us on the basis of gender and sexuality. Our culture seems to worship the false gods of gender and sexuality and this concept of gender worship is being drilled into our heads. Women aren’t beautiful unless they have breast implants and liposuction. Men are supposed to used prescription drugs to enhance performance. Sorry to be so blunt, but it is clear what or society worships. I think of Christ as the “Gold Standard” and the one and only one we should worship and strive to emulate. When one accepts Christ as the “Gold Standard” we accept his admonition to “esteem our brother as our self”. I don’t want to be defined or labeled by my gender and sexuality. Yea, I could think of myself as a post-menopausal women, past her child baring years with a few too many gray hairs. Is that how I want people to define me? The Quaker Society of Friends addresses members as “friend” which is a very gender neutral term. That term gives me such a wonderful feeling of acceptance and equality. Christ also used that term, “friend”, so many times. “You are my friends, if you do what I say”. Oh, that is so beautiful!! It implies that our relationship to Christ isn’t about our gender, it is about our obedience to the Lord.
I have also noticed that when I begin to see men as human beings and cultivate true friendships with them, I have a richer and deeper understanding of them as spiritual beings. When I see them only in terms of their gender, sexuality and marital status, I lose sight of who they really are are people. I also wish that men would stop viewing women in terms of gender, sexuality, marital status etc. I love simply being addressed as “friend”.
Welcome Gail, I so glad that you joined us. I totally understand where you are coming from (very cliche). I have always heard the motto, “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change”, . . . . . but, I have my own motto:
“God grant me the tenacity to change the things I cannot accept”.
The first quote is passive, the second is active.
Now, I have always been taught by the Prophets that, “The Lord is at the Helm” and that He lead and guides this church through revelation given to a living Prophet. Great, I’m grateful that we have a true, living Prophet of God. I believe that a living Prophet can receive revelation for the entire Church and even the entire world. My problem comes with this personal belief that Prophets of God can and do make mistakes. Which Prophet – all of them. Prophets are not omniscient (all-knowing)
Omniscient is an interesting word:
having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.
This attribute seems to appear only in God. The Prophets do not have a complete understanding – none of us do. We are all somewhere on the learning curve. Issues such as racism, sexism and sexuality are extremely complex. I have had a great desire to teach members of the Church about the new biochemistry and molecular biology of sexual development, sexual differentiation and sexual orientation. New concepts and theories such as “Androgen Imprinting” of the developing fetus are fascinating fields of study. So far we have identified genes for Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (no testosterone receptors in males), 5 alpha reductase deficiency (can’t convert testosterone to biologically active form), congenital adrenal hyperplasia (little girls whose adrenal glands produce massive amounts of testosterone), X inactivation syndrome and the list goes on and on. I work in an Endocrinology Lab. It tested thousands of testosterone and estrogen samples. Oh,I have sooooo stopped judging people. I can’t even believe that I was once so judgmental and bigoted.
It was knowledge of things like Klinefelter’s Syndrome (XXY) that saved me. Society was judging these people as gay, queer, evil – the poor guy have two full sized X chromosomes and a little piece of a Y chromosome (Klinefelters Syndrome Variant). We can’t give this guy testosterone because his family has a history of prostate and ovarian cancer and the testosterone injections will increase his risk. He can’t have a male mastectomy to correct gynemastia (male breasts) because he has clotting factor 8 deficiency and would bleed to death during surgery. So meanwhile, the Church is condemning these guys, people are insulting them and calling them “fags”.
I am almost ready to submit my resignation from the Church because I am so fed up with the homophobia. God grant me the tenacity to change the things I can’t accept. I will either change this, or I will be excommunicated trying. It is as simple as that.
I loved this quote from the above link: It is a characteristic of Egyptian art that nothing in the compositions was left to chance. Within Egyptian illustration, every gesture, symbol and glyph has a very specific meaning and the meaning of the whole is often enhanced significantly depending on the additive nature of its parts. As I built this illustration I couldn’t help but marvel at the cumulative significance and consistency the Egyptian symbols had with literary and scriptural references to the Ark.
It is characteristic of Egyptian iconography within an illustration to be read as if it were part of a text. The way the iconography is read and applied to an illustration creates its own meaning. These subtleties are rooted in the fact that the Classical Egyptian language was written in Hieroglyphics. The phonetic aspects of Hieroglyphs and their meaning often were directly derived from pictographs and iconography, making the language replete with double meaning and pun. The ancient Egyptian language was very conservative in its evolution throughout its history and remained the instrument of the scribes and the ruling classes. It was not until much later in history at approximately the time of the creation of the Phoenician Alphabet and its derivatives languages that words were written entirely phonetically and with no pictorial references.
At this point in time after the evolution of language away from the formal Hieroglyphic texts it appears that written language become more egalitarian in its general use and application, however the majority of the populous in any given culture remained illiterate.
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This artist has spent so many years studying each symbol in the Egyptian glyths so that he could recreate the Ark of the Covenant, that he is actually able to point out which symbols refer to the Ark and their spiritual significance. For example, the Ark is a symbol for the Virgin Mary who will carry and bring forth the word of God. The Israelites did not want the Egyptians (or anyone else) to harm the young Christ, so there writings of him are somewhat encrypted and symbolic.
I am still trying to find that link, but here is another interesting link: I was just looking at the temporary housing kits (600) that the Church will be sending to Haiti. They include tin roofs, wood, tarp and cement. They are basically temporary structures for shelter during the coming raining season. I was scanning pictures of housing in Haiti when I had to fully realize that most of the people were living in shacks prior to the earthquake. I wish that we could just scape the plans for the 75 million dollar Philadelphia Temple and build a 2 million dollar edifice – and spend 73 million on housing for Haiti. It would just completely restore all of my faith in the Church if I saw them spend on the living!!
Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. We are the richest. This would be such a way to connect, to grow the Church spiritually. We are so dang good at building things. We are the pros. I love the little tin and wood housing kits, but come’on, we can do better. I would love to just literally build the Kingdom of God on earth – and fill it with little children, little Haitian children.
Please, God, Please.
Dear Alphie, I so understand how you feel. I have suffered for about 1 1/2 years with intensifying doubt. I would pray several times per day and ponder what I both loved and disliked about the Church. My feelings were very mixed. Oh, it would be so easy to just walk away and leave a Church that was all bad, but the Church isn’t. There is much history, many plain and precious truths and so many loved ones who are still in the Kingdom.
One of my answers came from a man by the name of Shane Claiborne, a Quaker Minister:
“There came a moment in the struggle where we relinquished our frustration with the Church. We said, “We’re going to stop complaining about the Church that we’ve experienced, and work on becoming the Church that we dream of. And work on figuring out how we can be people of God in the world who are formed into
something different from the world around us, who embody the love and grace in a way that people can see and touch”.
He went on to say, “What a beautiful thing it is, that we have a God that doesn’t want to change the world without us”.
Well, last Sunday, my family attended Church. My grandson (age 19 months) was taken to nursery. There was actually a sign in sheet where parents could sign the babies in and out. (I had been an assistant nursery leader for many years and we had never had a sign in/out list. Older siblings, sometimes no more than five were allowed to pick-up and drop of 18 month olds). As each mother or father came in, he or she was handed a pager and told to go and enjoy church. Don’t worry about your little one, we will page you if we need you, pagers on vibrate of course. (Hey no more wondering around the church looking for Mom when a baby needs a diaper change or a breast-feeding!!!)
It was so refreshing to hear my daughter come out of church and exclaim, “that was the very first time since I had my baby that I actually got to sit through church and listen to the lesson without having to worry about my baby”.
Yea, and there was something else different about that Church. Drums were included in the Sacrament meeting music because many of the cultures in our community love drums and don’t know how to sing without the accompaniment of a drum.
Ok, I didn’t go to my own LDS Ward. I went to a meeting run by LDS people who have basically been tossed aside by the Church. Our teacher was a returned missionary. We know that we have no control or voice in our own LDS Church, only the Prophet does, but we can dream. I know that the Lord is listening to us, even if we are singing to a different drum.
I have also wanted to take a moment and reflect on some personal thoughts about baptism for the dead. If you google images, LDS baptismal fonts, you will see some of the most beautiful fonts on earth today. Each baptismal font rests atop a team of 12 beautiful oxen, 3 facing 3, 3 facing west, north and south. 1 Kings 7:25
“It stood upon twelve oxen, three looking toward the north, and three looking toward the west, and three looking toward the south, and three looking toward the east: and the sea was set above upon them, and all their hinder parts were inward.”
An ox is actually a male bull who has been castrated, yoked into submission and is driven by his master to plow the fields and do all of the heavy labor. Although Oxen were the most prized of all animals they could be considered a metaphor for slavery as they were never to be free and where living under the yoke of bondage. The castration further showed that these animals would never have increase and would be “cut of” whilst in mortality.
Each of the twelve oxen represent a tribe of the house of Israel, scattered to the four corners of the earth in all directions.
But is there another symbolism? I fancy to think that the bondage, powerlessness and castration (cut off from increase) is a similitude of death. What greater bondage then the grave? What deeper sense of powerlessness than death? What castration could be more final than being cut off from life itself? What slavery could be more bitter than sin?
It is true that ancient men (the Greeks, I think), may have used the Oxen to depict the gods of the underworld or death. Yet above these oxen, resting on their shoulders, is bore a baptismal font. The “sea” or font transcends all. It gathers the House of Israel, tribe by tribe. It bares the ordinance of baptism in the similitude of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Perhaps its meaning is that through Christ and our covenants with Him, death itself is conquered!
We are forever freed from the slavery of sin. We are gathered together as one in Christ, to be no more scattered to the four winds of the earth. We are free!
We conquer death through Christ.
These are beautiful symbols and worthy of our sacrifice and devotion. I accept them.
Now for the living: I just want a small closet with a sink in it so that I can wash my hands when I lead the nursery. President Monson, our nurseries have as many as 16 18-36 month old toddlers. We need to wash our hands. Just a closet with a small sink would be fine. We also have to serve water and we always run out as toddlers seem to spill the water from their tiny dixie cups. Sometimes, accidents happen that require us to wash our hands very quickly. Hand sanitizer isn’t enough when a little person has a diaper accident!!!
Let’s not forget our youth. They are the present and future of the Church. The next Prophet of the Church may be in nursery at this time. The impressions we make on our wee ones will influence their feelings toward the church forever.
My point is that our priority must be with the living, especially the children. These babes can’t go into the Temple and use the baptismal fonts. They just want Teddy Grahms and water. The symbol here is LOVE. If we love them, they will grow to love the Church. Simple.
You are all so right. The Community of Christ (formerly the Reorganized LDS Church) did a complete “update” or “overhaul” of their doctrine in the year 2000 to reflect the learning and knowledge that had been acquired since 1830. Our society has made miraculous improvements in Social Justice and Racial and Gender Equality, Education, Health and Ethics (treatment of prisoners etc.). We all need to understand that it is the Light of Christ that guided us to these wonderful changes. Where much is given, much will be expected. The problem is that we must be willing to let go of so many dearly held beliefs. I was reading an article from a Jewish man who explained why he was not a Christian. “I believe in Christ”, he exclaimed. I knew he did. He was so sincere, but “I cannot worship on the first day of the week”. The Sabbath means 7th in Hebrew, he explained. How could he ever change such an established doctrine and practice as worshiping on the 7th day?
He also explained that the Jewish Apostle, Paul got rid of all of the sacred rituals of Judism. He could not imagine life without ritual. What he did not understand was that each ritual was to teach and lead the Children of Israel to Christ, it was not the ritual itself that had value.
Now, our world is changing. Signs, symbols and rituals that meant so much to those that attended the Temple in the early Church, may mean something totally different today. Do they still lead us to Christ? Can we let go of our ham and funeral potatoes at all funerals and serve a low-fat, low sodium meal? So many of us are struggling with obesity and high blood pressure. Can we just bring fruit trays and healthy low-fat casseroles. Can we really change?
The value is discovering what did not lead us to Christ in the past is that we can change it. We can change our future.
Dear Mormonmom, Your covenants are not with the Temple, they are not with the LDS Church, your covenants are with Christ. The very first covenant you made with Christ was when you were 8. It was your baptism. Do you remember it? Then. . . . one each week you renew that covenant through partaking of the sacrament. You witness unto Christ that you will always remember Him and keep His commandments which He has given you may have His Spirit to be with you. The bad thing that happens when we break our covenants is that we lose His Spirit until we repent.
Your marriage covenant is a vow. Are you honoring it? Are you faithful to your spouse? |Yes, I’m sure you are!! You have nothing to fear. You have nothing to worry about. Christ does not teach us fear. He admonishes us to “fear not”. It is faith, not fear that leads us to Christ.
I’m sorry about your wedding day. You love him, | hope. That’s all that matters. God bless.
As Bob Dylan would say, “the times, they are a changing”. I used to read Leviticus in the OT and ponder about how Lepers were diagnosed and treated. Actually, it was the very best they had. There were no microbiologists, no laboratories, no modern antibiotics, no civil rights for lepers. If you were diagnosed by a Priest, you went into a leper colony and waited to die. Then a man by the name of Jesus Christ came along and revolutionized the world. He healed lepers!!
That’s right Christ totally ignored the laws that said one could not approach and touch a leper. He placed his own hands upon them, blessed them, healed them and enjoined them to “go, show yourselves unto the Priests”. Christ changed everything. Physicians began to aspire to treat and cure those with leprosy and one day, they did.
Just as Leviticus assigned those with leprosy to a “colony of death”, so were those with “same sex attraction” disposed of. What good were they to society? What good is a leper to society? We just find a way to get rid of those we don’t want. Then came Christ. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. Suddenly, it is about identifying sin within our own selves and not within others. “Judge not, that you be not judged”, where does that leave us? We live in a day and an age where anyone with a computer can look up John C. Bennett and just read about him on Wikipedia. We are going to have a very hard time justifying our persecution of homosexuals until we come to terms with our own church history.
Your post is very timely, because I have been thinking about the same thing. The question is really, “How do we perfect the Saints”. I want to digress and tell a little story. When President George Washington became ill with a fever and a very sore and swollen throat, he sent for his prized “White-House Physicians”. These were the very best and brightest doctors at the time. The followed the procedure of the day and did the best they could. The treatment offered to Washington was blood-letting. They ended up removing about 3-4 pints of blood, all the time hoping that whatever infirmity had possessed
would be drained away. (Blood-letting had very spiritual significant at the time).
A young physician-in-training started to protest the treatment. He argued that a new procedure called a tracheotomy should be performed. He said that President Washington couldn’t breath and that if a tracheotomy were to be performed, the President’s airway would be restored. The older Physicians continued to let blood and ignored this young and inexperienced doctor. The President died.
Hindsight, as always, has a perfect 20/20 vision. We can all look back in dismay. Our first President bleed to death at the hands of his own physicians. He could have been saved, but he was not. The tracheotomy was the right thing to do.
His physicians said that “in the end, they did the very best they could do according to their own knowledge and skill and therefore they were justified”. Yes, yes they were justified, having done their best, believing and enduring in faith . . . . but, they were wrong.
Now to the Church: The Church was brought into existence in the 1830s. Women had virtually NO rights. A woman teacher was paid 30 cents for every dollar a man earned (see Lucretia Mott’s, Founder of the Women’s Equality Movement). Women could not vote and were considered the property of men . . . and yes, a few polygamist wives were actually used to replace slaves. It’s true. It just is. Several woman came forward (hard to do) and accused the Prophet Joseph Smith of suggesting that they enter into plural marriage. One of them was the wife of William Law. Brother Law’s wife refused, and Law condemned the Prophet. Law was excommunicated for apostasy and even this very hour his name is listed on the BYU historical pages as an “apostate”. Same thing with Brother David Whitmer. But, Law and Whitmer were NOT apostates. They weren’t excommunicated because they sinned and committed adultry. No! They were cast out because they bore witness against a man who they claimed propositioned their own wives. These men were righteous, good and truthful men.
One day the world will know it. You can destroy a printing press and keep it from printing the truth, but you can’t destroy the internet.
Ok, so the Church didn’t listen to the men who were right, just as Washington’s Physicians would not listen to the young doctor who explored them to do the only thing that would save the president. If we do not do the right thing, right now, our Church could “bleed to death” and the oxygen could be cut off. We could die as a church.
The only thing is to take the knife, bit the bullet and “cut or own throats”, so to speak. Admit the truth. Open up a serious and honest historical discussion. Joseph Smith (and I love this man) most likely had epilepsy for which there was no treatment at the time. As with all untreated epileptics, Smith probably entered and “end-stage” of the illness where he likely suffered hallucinations and delusions (angels with swords coming to kill him etc.). This is just my stupid opinion, but it is what things are starting to look like right now. He who covereth his sins will not prosper. “Cut your throat, stop the bleeding”. You’ll live, you will recover. Only the truth can save you.
Amen, Justme Here is a copy and paste:
SALT LAKE CITY 18 July 2008 Utah is leading the world in genetic research because of the Utah Population Data Base (UPDB), a unique combination of state vital statistics, other medical profiles and genealogical records from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
“More human disease genes have been discovered in Utah than in any other place in the world,” explained Ray Gesteland, vice president for research and a genetics professor at the University of Utah.
That’s because the Church’s family history records provide invaluable information to a host of University of Utah and Huntsman Cancer Institute researchers involved in genetic data studies. The records tying one family to another and yet another provide a resource to medical personnel attempting to tie a genetic marker or cluster of markers to another generation.
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That is true!! Utah is home to Myriad Genetics, Associated Regional and University Pathologists and a host of other leading genetic research companies. Why?
Of course the reason that genetic researchers settle in Utah is that we have a well-educated work force and people who can readily give researchers and accurate and complete accounting of ancestors to the 4th, 5th and even 6th and 7th generation. It’s a bonanza of genetic field information. My former spouse suffered from schizophrenia caused by a mutation on the long arm of chromosome 5. He had his genealogy and researchers immediately traced him back to Canada, England and Denmark. Researchers in England and Denmark where able to identity others with this marker. People have been tested and treated even before symptoms arise because this form of mental illness is highly treatable. Genealogy is definitely for the living!
The former head of the Utah Genealogical Society was a Quaker women. Interestingly enough, Quakers do not believe in baptism by immersion or in taking oaths, hence they do not participate in Temple Ordinances – but they do believe in genealogy. This is what unites us, all of us. This is the “Spirit of Elijah” that unites us to each other, living, dead, Mormon, Quaker or any other faith.
