[My3GirlsDad]

Old-Timer wrote:

Quote:

“The only way I see that this situation be avoided in the future is if the lds church becomes a more mainstream Christian Church”

I don’t want the LDS Church to become a more mainstream Christian Church. I want it to remain the unique, peculiar, paradoxical oddity that it is.

That, to me, is the heart of its glory and power and potential.

The lds church history will always be peculiar and unique. I see no power or glory in it all because of issues that are often discussed on this board. I do see power and glory in all believers being unified in their faith in Christ and His Good News. No matter their history, dogma they once believed in, religion they once or still belong to- acceptance of the true Good News of the Gospel is what should unite us. That is Power!!

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I just wish all of the members could understand and love better those who struggle – seeing the sinner in ALL of us and loving ALL of us just the same. That’s NOT “mainstream Christianity, as mainstream Christianity (at least theologolically) is anything BUT accepting and understanding and empowering of those who are different. Many mainstream Christians are, but mainstream Christian theology is not. I’ll take the natural tension within the LDS Church between an inclusive theology and many non-inclusive members any day over the tension between an exclusive theology and some non-exclusive members. (If you don’t understand what I mean by that, ask mainstream Christians where Mormons [and Buddhists and Muslims and Jews and many others] will end up and ask mainstream Mormons where non-Mormons of all kinds will end up – then analyze the responses to gauge inclusiveness on a sliding scale. The difference, in general terms, is shocking.)

You need to visit my church and I think you would have a new perspective. Your view of “exclusive theology within Christianity” would change if you came with me this Sunday .

Looking for love and acceptance within the lds framework/doctrine is like looking for the Great Wall of China in Brazil. You will find it with certain, wonderful, loving, free-thinking members- but the doctrine is what creates this lack of acceptance. The doctrine of the church creates non-accepting people that would otherwise be totally accepting if put in a different doctrinal system. I have experienced it- and it is clear to me now where before I just thought there were a lot of self-righteous people in the lds church. That’s not the case- the lds church’s doctrine produces this fruit. It’s almost unavoidable…unless you see or sense it and then proactively decide to break the mold like many here in this forum have done.

Any church that puts forward a gospel of works to merit salvation will always create a large segment of proud,non-accepting people. Look at any religion and those who are faithful followers- they become dogmatic, proud, judgmental etc. They can’t help it in that system if they are devout doctrinal followers. That is not the Gospel the Christ taught. You can be a non-judgmental member of a religion- but you won’t be a strict follower of their dogma. You actually become more loving and accepting by getting away from a religions core doctrine and their works/rules that they promise will save you.

The Christian Theology that you refer to is only as exclusive as you want it to be. There are New Order Christians just like New Order Mormons. I believe most of them choose to go to some type of Non-Denominational church. They go there because they don’t want the dogma generally found in religions. They want to worship God and be accepted solely on the fact that they are a believer in Christ and Him crucified. That’s it. We don’t have to agree on the Trinity, what heaven will be like, who goes to hell, etc, etc. It’s wonderful!! I find myself becoming more ok with knowing less and believing more. And any issue not pertaining to my Faith in Jesus as my Saviour is just not “a hill to die on” for me. And I try to influence other Christians to be more tolerant of those who may not believe the same way they do. It’s all “Trivial Pursuit” knowledge in my book anyway- if it doesn’t center on the Atonement of Jesus and the Grace offered us through faith and not of works.

The LDS doctrine of salvation is different than what is taught in the New Testament- particularly Romans. Until the lds church changes the doctrine of “saved by works then some grace” it will continue to produce the fruit that many in the religion find so bitter. In my opinion the lds gospel is a “Heretical Gospel of Worthiness” and is the main source of all the ills. It will continue to produce self-righteous followers because that is the end result of that doctrine. Members will continue to seek the peace they want and deserve- but will always be left wanting. That is why there is so much accommodation and mental gymnastics required to salvage their membership and feel a semblance of peace they seek.

My hope is that those of us who decide to remain in the lds church will be able put God before religion and find worthiness, peace and perfection in Christ alone. His Atonement makes you worthy and perfect right now- in spite of your works, not because of them. He just wants us to be broken and contrite…He stands ready and willing to save us daily.

[My3GirlsDad]

Silent Dawning-

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And its too bad, because in its most basic format, our Church encourages a healthy, clean life.

They do encourage that. But they are like a controlling father figure who rousts you every day at 5:30am and demands that you get your exercise. Then he monitors what you eat/drink and follows up in a series of interviews. Its a bit silly. But they set the rules for membership and we need to follow the rules while we “live under their roof”. I just think most people will eventually find “their own place” because although they are in great physical shape- the emotional/psychological toll is too high. That is why a lot of us have found community in web communities- because we need real, true, loving connection.

The members of your ward are the reason you suffer through it all. They are the bright spot, the community- they are suffering right along with you against the (oftentimes unseen) oppressive nature of the leadership. And this leadership style was inherited- it’s not really the current leadership’s fault at all. They believe that they are acting in accordance with God’s will- in His only true church. The problem lies much deeper- and we inherited it…along with all the good stuff that came with it.

The problems, frustration, emotional distress, and unbelief will all continue as long as the core is faulty. And the bright spots will continue as well- but won’t be able to outweigh the distress in the long run. Why the distress? Because we all want to be a part of something that we can REALLY believe in. Something that inspires us and is honest. Something that doesn’t require mental gymnastics to get through or the “lowering of expectations” to appreciate. Or making a pro-con list. This is not an arranged marriage. We GET to love it- if we want to.

Sorry to go off topic- I just hurt for the pain that people have, are and will go through because of this religion- in spite of its good intentions. I am still lds by record only but find little peace in their brand of “Good News”. I just hope that people can separate a loving, kind, true God from this organization that claims to be His only bride. Faith in Christ saves us and the Grace offered through Him is the easy yoke that we seek. A church can offer neither of these- even if they claim to be the conduit to them.

M3GD

[My3GirlsDad]

Cwald- I am sorry that you have gone through this trying situation this past week. I know we can all relate to what is going on with in varying degrees. I the lds church ultimately wants only members who can honestly answer all TR questions “correctly”- then most all NOM’s are on shaky ground with the lds church. But we know this…

The only way I see that this situation be avoided in the future is if the lds church becomes a more mainstream Christian Church and leaves the requirement for belief in the foundational restoration claims as optional. This will take a long time and may never happen- but they are losing members because of their unwillingness to address the historical facts.

I hope you can find a community of believers that is more suited to your way of thinking and believing. I wish you and your family well.

M3GD

[My3GirlsDad]

Cwald wrote:

Quote:

So what I hear (no disrespect meant M3GB) is a “christian” saying he “knows” his way of Christianity is the best and true — which is the EXACT same thing I hear every week at church

I do not claim to know anything. Here is a statement I made yesterday about knowing and believing:

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So I have made a decision. I choose to believe in the words of Christ found in the New Testament over the words that Joseph Smith said he got from God. I don’t know that I am right, but my confidence is very high and I believe it without doubting. I have made a decision about what I believe based on all the evidence that I have studied. It’s that simple for me, really. If forced to choose…I will bet on the NT.

I think we should each be very confident and convinced that “our way” is the best way to some degree. A healthy dose of respect for others right to believe as they do is also in order. But I think it is important to challenge each others’ thinking and test our beliefs as well. The idea that we should not try to influence others toward greater peace and joy and love is not very appealing to me. I am willing to be influenced and to influence- respectfully. I will not tell someone they are wrong or bad for believing what they do- but I will share something that I feel would bring them more peace or hope.

This goes without saying but yes, I do believe the there is a best way live this life. I don’t believe it is about religion or philosophy. I believe that there is a God and that Christ was truly God’s Son and the Good News is what we all need to be the happiest here in mortality. But the awesome thing is that because we are unique individuals- we will all live the Gospel in different ways and we can use our gifts to bless each other. But the core Christian beliefs are shared by all. I believe there is greater freedom, peace, joy and love in Christ than in any alternate philosophy. I don’t think a lot of the details are important:Trinity vs 3 separate, afterlife details, pre-existence, etc. God will give us great things because he IS love.

I hope each of you are equally convinced that your way is the best- life is too short to wonder and worry.

[My3GirlsDad]

Welcome!! I admire your desire to live Mormonism in it’s original form rather than what you consider to be a “watered down” version of it. I believe that God wants us to be Hot or Cold and that life is best lived in great faith! If you can’t live it in great faith then find something that you can.

Unlike you- I have no faith in the original LDS church. I don’t believe ANY religion can claim authority or that religion can save our souls. Only faith in Christ can do that. So that frees me up to go to any church where I feel helps my faith in Christ and my love for Him and man grows. I go to a Christian church by myself and then go to Sacrament meeting with my wife and 3 beautiful children. I stay LDS because my wife is still a member and I will support anyone who truly believes they are following God- even if I think they are off their rocker!

I may disagree with you entirely about many issues and especially your current belief about the early church- but please know that I respect and admire your heart. I believe that your desire is to serve God with all you have and in the way He wants you to- and for that you deserve great respect.

[My3GirlsDad]

Old-Timer wrote:

Quote:

Why do you insist, then, that Jesus be the foundation – or am I mis-reading your message?

No- you hit it right on the head. The reason I “insist” (respectfully, I hope) is because no other philosophy claims the redemption that Christ offers. Do other philosophies claim complete justification before God through faith in Someone who atoned for individual sins? Are other philosophies brazen enough to say that they are the ONLY “Way, Truth and Life”?

I believed in the LDS religion with all my heart for 23 years. I beat the hell out of myself on many occasions because they don’t teach a consistent message of Redemption. It confused me for so long that the harder I tried to “be worthy of the Spirit” the more aware I became of my imperfections. Then I found out that there are so many issues that were purposefully withheld from me by people that I trusted and respected. I know their motives were pure but the practice of concealment is almost criminal.

Looking for personal worthiness in ourselves is like looking for the Great Wall of China in Brazil. You will drive yourself crazy until you start looking elsewhere. Redemption and worthiness is found in Christ alone by faith. And they (R&W) are here and now- not later or somewhere else.

Sorry if I hi-jacked this thread. I answered your question in a different way in another thread. Let me know if I need to to something to get this back on topic.

Maybe this will help: I think the TBM view StayLDS as the lukewarmers. By my definition of TBM , they think that there is 1 way that everyone will eventually get to heaven and that’s through the ordinances that are offered by the LDS church. If any member feels differently, then their testimony of Joseph Smith and the restoration is too weak. They do not think outside that box and everything has to be put back in that box or God is unhappy. God bless them for it!! I admire their zeal- but they are so far off that it makes me pity them a bit. But God is great and He will bring them to greater peace and understanding in time right?

[My3GirlsDad]

Old-Timer wrote:

Quote:

How are we to know what he wants us to do, if there is no reason to rely on understanding of any particular law or command or rule as part of what he wants? Are you advocating that we ignore rules instituted by man

Are you talking about spiritual laws or laws of the land or both? I think we know what he wants us to do if it falls generally into the category of Love. Love God and fellow man. The interpretation of “how” to do that will vary from person to person. I think its cool that we all put it into practice in different ways- we are not to be “commanded in all things,” right? And we all have different talents and gifts. Its freeing to know that God will be pleased with us however we put it into practice once he has our hearts. I believe it is far more important to seek brokenness than making sure we are following the rules with exactness. I think most of the rules are made up by religions to keep order in their church. It’s like a corporation- it has to be run that way or things will run amuck. But we can become entrepreneurs and establish our own faith based on the main rules that Christ taught: brokenness, contrition, belief in Him, and love for God and man. That’s it.

Old-Timer wrote:

Quote:

If we can’t accept Joseph as a prophet who spoke for God in some things he said, why can we accept the NT disciples and/or those who wrote the Bible as God’s spokespersons?

I would argue that the Bible (especially the NT) is far more trustworthy than Joseph Smith- on many levels. I will take the witness of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Paul over the witnesses for Joseph Smith. The Dead Sea Scrolls corroborated the translation of OT scripture with almost perfect accuracy- so the whole translation error argument is tenuous IMO.

But ultimately we have to choose and step out in faith on this one. We do not really “know” anything. Would you agree? In reading the NT and the BofM- there are very important differences in the doctrines about our salvation. I believe the conflicting doctrines are a big clue that the BofM was man-made.

So I have made a decision. I choose to believe in the words of Christ found in the New Testament over the words that Joseph Smith said he got from God. I don’t know that I am right, but my confidence is very high and I believe it without doubting. I have made a decision about what I believe based on all the evidence that I have studied. It’s that simple for me, really. If forced to choose…I will bet on the NT. And my life has been more peaceful and full since that decision was made. I still am a work in progress and fight against temptation a like we all do- but I am not burdened (unnecessarily IMO) by all the stuff that Joseph Smith or the Catholic church, etc says we need to do to gain salvation on top of what Christ said we need to do. I choose Christ as the way over the many possible “ways” that we have to believe in. Just the steak please- no toppings needed. And make it a lamb steak.

[My3GirlsDad]

Brian Johnston wrote:

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It seems we can not abandon “the law” either, while we move forward in our fulfillment of it.

I would just add that the order of things changed- and that the order is important. We now keep the commandments to build His Kingdom and serve him because He loved us and saved us first. The need to obtain salvation through the keeping of the law was made irrelevant. We are now able to “buy milk and honey without money and without price”- because the price was paid by Christ.

God doesn’t want a bunch of robots that are really good at keeping a bunch of rules- with no heart. He wants more than that- he wants out hearts! When He has that- then He knows that we will do whatever he wants at any time- and he’ll accept our imperfect efforts in doing it. The rules are just the means to the end of glorifying God and bringing people to Him. Do you agree?

[My3GirlsDad]

GBSmith wrote:

Quote:

I’m not quite sure why that makes me feel a little uneasy. I can understand the sentiment about feeling the exists from faith in Christ but when you add the alone part it reminds me what it feels like to be proselyted.

I do believe that “my way” is the best way to live. That is why I live and believe the way I do- and I don’t apologize for it. But I equally expect others to be convinced that “their way” is the best too. I don’t take offense to it- I think we should be convinced that we are living the best way. I lived in doubt for far too long- and it is not a good place to be in many ways. Some doubt can be helpful but too much can be disastrous imo.

I think it best to live with complete apathy for the things that just don’t matter, complete confidence, and complete love. I readily admit that I do want others to feel and claim the peace the I have come to know after a very long struggle. But I believe that the peace of which I speak is personal. It is not found in any religion or through faith in any person or thing or practice. Because that is the case we can all keep attending the LDS church and find complete peace there. So let’s StayLDS!! but with benefits.

[My3GirlsDad]

The core issue with regard to the LDS religion being God’s ONLY vehicle to administer “saving ordinances” through the “priesthood” is this: was Joseph Smith really called by God? I don’t believe that he was- for a number of reasons that we have read about. There are other reasons besides the historical ones that I believe are evident as well. IMO the proof is everywhere.

I StayLDS because my wife is still a believer and I want to support her in her belief- even though I think that most of the doctrines are heretical and man-made. I believe that many LDS doctrines impede your ability to find the peace we can claim in Christ. I do however feel strongly that LDS members or members of any organized religion will be “credited” for their good works even if it turns out they believed in heretical teachings and practices. God judges us by our intentions and our hearts- how can I judge a mormon or a catholic harshly when the really believe that they are following God? I just believe they are making it unduly hard on themselves. Salvation is easy. The yoke is easy. Life is hard enough without needing to question your worthiness every day. All we have to question is the condition of our hearts- Christ stands ready to BE our worthiness. Because I have no faith in Joseph Smith as a prophet I also do not believe most of the things you mentioned as core doctrines: Complete Apostacy, necessity a restoration of authority, the BofM, “saving” ordinances (an oxymoron imo), etc

The gospel only makes complete sense and one can only be at real peace once you let go of the idea that faith in any religion or man is essential to your salvation IMO. If you truly are brokenhearted and believe in Christ and love him each day- the works automatically follow. They become a bi-product of your love for Him because of the change that occurs in your heart as you hand your will over to Him each day. It’s the most amazing way to live IMO. The rest of it- whatever any religion wants to put on us as a necessity to obtain salvation is just inconsequential stuff. If you like doing all those other things because it fits your personality type- then go for it. If you don’t- then let it go. That’s my version on the “buffet mormon” idea. But I feel it is far more peaceful to do it with FULL confidence that those extra religious works are really irrelevant to your salvation. Or if you believe they are necessary- then do it in FULL faith!! Romans 14:23 …”whatsoever is not of faith is sin”.

If you have real faith in Christ and believe that his atonement perfects you COMPLETELY each day (Stephen Robinson), then the rest of the stuff is just fluff. Faith in ordinances, prophets, temple, WofW, restoration, priesthood and the rest of it- is all a matter of personal choice and has NO bearing on your personal salvation. I believe that THAT is the freedom in Christ the God wants for us. It’s a bit scarier- but so liberating when you believe every day that your salvation is secure as long as you remain broken and exercise faith in Him each day.

StayLDS so you don’t want to upset the apple cart. Stay because you love the people in your ward. Stay because its the community that you are used to. But get Christ first and be willing to let go of all else if it is ever required- because He is the Way. IMO.

[My3GirlsDad]

Quote:

Just out of curiosity, why do you say that – and what exactly do you mean?

I have read a lot of posts and can readily see that there are many different “world views” and “God views” and “church views”. That’s all I mean Ray. You have it out for me, don’t you.

Why do you ask? What do you think I meant?

[My3GirlsDad]

Ray,

You have taken this way too far. Take a deep breath and hear me out. You stated:

Quote:

That simply isn’t backed up by ANY evidence – none at all.

I think you need to check your facts or at least fill in the dots a bit. Here are the facts:

1) Blood Atonement was taught by Brigham Young and Joseph Smith. Mormons in their day believed that they spoke for God- literally.

2) One of the Temple oaths in the days of the MMM was: “You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children’s children unto the third and fourth generation.” (The Reed Smoot Case, vol. 4, pp. 495-496)

3) John D Lee and others received orders from Isaac C Haight- his priesthood leader.

The point I made is that when people believe that a man is speaking for God- they will do almost anything because they believe they are following God. That is not a good thing if that man teaches doctrine that is in conflict to Christ’s teachings and then threatens members with excommunication if they don’t accept the doctrines of the current “vessels of the Lord.” I didn’t say that it was ordered by Brigham Young- and you said I did.

I know what the term TBM means- and your definition is broader than mine. To me it stands for True or Total Believing Member- someone who believes that the current prophet speaks for God and that the LDS church is God’s Kingdom on the earth. If you go against what the current prophet directs or teaches- then you are in opposition to God. That is pretty weighty to someone who has not separated God and church and thank goodness the leadership of the LDS church are good men and fear God. I don’t think we will be confronted with a situation like this again but for you to insinuate that the teachings of the prophet at the time and the temple oaths had little to do with what happened at MMM is a bit naive in my opinion.

I support my wife and kids in the church because I respect individual agency and where people’s hearts are. I don’t judge Brigham Young harshly because I think he really believed that Joseph Smith was a prophet and that he spoke for God. I lay all the blame at the foot of Joseph Smith- I believe he alone took advantage of faithful people who perpetuated his lies out of their love for and faith in God. I believe he purposefully deceived them. I don’t blame anyone for following what they really believe- and I will support my family in their chosen path to follow God. But I do hope that they have “eyes to see and ears to hear” in the same way I do at some point in the future. Because I also believe that the way I believe is correct and better in every way- that’s why I choose what I consider to be the “right” way.

You cannot argue that fact that people are willing to die for their beliefs. Muslims blow themselves up and those involved in MMM thought they were following their priesthood leaders and keeping promises made in the temple. I believe the potential for blind obedience by TB Members of ANY religion exists today. TB Catholics, Mormons, Scientologists, Jehovah’s Witnesses- many would commit acts which have occurred in history all over again for the simple fact that they think that they are doing it in the name of God. Do I really need to site historical examples of this occurring? Look at Ireland’s history. If you want to take it further than this then that is your perogative. I think you really over-reacted and missed the point almost entirely.

PS I read through my post again and I know that I am coming back at you somewhat strongly. I did feel attacked by your post as I am confident you felt attacked by mine. I hope we can agree to disagree- I don’t mean to bring contention here and if I have then I apologize.

[My3GirlsDad]

Can you imagine living in a family whose father was a devout Pharisee? The family was instructed that salvation only came by complete obedience to the Law- weren’t there like 713 created laws at the time of Christ? I know that a couple of them were: 1) “No spitting on Sunday”- for fear that a seed might germinate and that is considered causing something to “work”. 2) You could not walk more than 2/3 of a mile on the Sabbath. etc

Then Christ comes and says that the Law is fulfilled in Him. He no longer requires the keeping of the Law- but rather says there are only a few things required for salvation: 1) Brokenness- sincere acknowledgment that you cannot save yourself by obedience to Law. 2) Contrition of Spirit. 3) Belief in Christ. I love His words about Salvation- this is the Gospel in its pure, simple form.

I imagine if a son or daughter came home to that family telling them of the “new” doctrine of Jesus Christ- heads would roll!! The father would argue that it was false doctrine and that Jesus was anti-God and anti-Abraham and Moses and a few others. Families would split up because of the new-found faith in Christ. The father would argue: “Look at all the good that the Pharisees teach! Look how disciplined they teach us to be, and how they help our kids stay out of trouble and the structure that is in place!! What more evidence do you need that our religion is true?!” “We must continue to keep the Law or we will be thrust down to hell!” I can see it all clearly because of the culture shock that happened within my family when I disclosed to everyone that I would not be an active member in the LDS church anymore but retained a firm faith in Christ and was committed to following Him.

Even keeping the commandments to love God and love your neighbor do not save us- they are merely what we do because He asks us to and because we love Him. And we love Him because He loved us first- even while we were sinners and were not deserving. No one ever “deserves” or “earns” salvation. What we do is merely the evidence that our hearts are committed to Christ and that we remain broken, humble and believe in Christs’ power to cover our sins every day. What good is salvation if it only applies at the end of our lives? (And couldn’t the end of our lives possibly be today?) Isn’t it a daily salvation that we are offered? That we are perfected every day that we are truly humble and full of faith in the Blood of the Lamb? I believe it is so – and the burden of salvation has finally become light and the yoke- easy.

[My3GirlsDad]

I believe that the LDS church is a great place to have children taught good values and is a great social structure. It’s the people in the individual wards that make the LDS church appear great- wonderful people acting out of pure love and kindness towards others. There are awesome Christians in the LDS church in spite of the many confusing and conflicting doctrines taught each week. It’s awesome that people can weed through the non-essentials and get to what matters- loving each other.

I would venture that all TBM’s believe that the current prophet helps them follow Christ and actually speaks on His behalf. Those people will do whatever the prophet asks because of the aforementioned foundational belief. They will serve, give money, give time and perform rituals for salvation of self and others even it seems a little strange at first. They will also kill, marry additional wives in secret, take secret oaths, etc. That should not surprise any of us because of the LDS History that we know all to well. Mountain meadows and other historical events would definitely happen again if the right circumstances were present.

I separate my belief in the LDS church and my belief if God and Christ. Men cannot be trusted and are fallible- we all are. I will not follow a command from a man if it conflicts with Christ’s teachings. Easier said than done- I know, but I will wrestle with the possible “conflicting words” of Christ and come to a decision rather than blindly following a man who claims to be speaking for God.

[My3GirlsDad]

I was one of those TBM types for a long time. At the same time I realized that I could never be “worthy or righteous” by the LDS’s definition of it. It is not possible to be worthy and repent fully of our sins because that requires keeping ALL the commandments. We have Spencer Kimball to thank for that hamster wheel. I know his intentions were good but the M of Forgiveness has done more damage than good IMO.

I wanted to be ALL IN in the LDS church because I have always wanted give God my whole heart and serve Him confidently EVERY DAY. That was and still is my desire. Not to be self-righteous. I just firmly believe that peace, joy, being PRESENT, and the good life is best found in making Christ a daily part of our lives. I don’t believe that many doctrines of the LDS church support people coming to Christ in that way. Their way is much more humanistic and Pharisaical.

I still go to the LDS church every Sunday because my wife and children are still active members- and I love them. I respect their beliefs in Joseph Smith and current prophets even though I am completely convinced that they are dead wrong. I will continue to support my wife and children in the church until they no longer find it supportive. I also attend a non-denominational Christian Church every Sunday. I love it.

I understand that people do not want to upset family relationships, careers, friendships, etc and that is why many stay somewhat active in the LDS church. Or they believe in many of the doctrines and can rationalize the ones that don’t make sense. I believe that there is only 1 faith that saves us. When someone suggests that “you just have to have faith” in whatever issue or doctrine is troubling- I take issue. Faith in anything else or anyone else besides the Son of God is not saving faith and therefore up for debate and criticism. How can it be any other way? We have to be able to judge any man or doctrine that is claiming to be divine- both past, present and future.

I have come to my conclusions about the LDS Church- and I just want others to find the peace and freedom that exists in Christ alone. As long as we have that then we can go to any church we want imo- because therein lies ultimate freedom.

I know many of you here disagree with me and I respect your right to believe as you will- that is a God given right. I am finally at peace and my wife and I are making it work. I also want to help other couples who are in my same position- where one spouse is TBM “like” and the other no longer has faith in the LDS religion but retains firm faith in Christ. The journey is going to be an interesting one.

[Author]

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