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Joni, I too, have been a life long member and knew about polygamy in general, but I never knew about Joseph Smith’s role in it until recent years and I am a guy in my fifties. The superficial “knowledge” I had about polygamy was also presented as something that would be considered noble as well, like “these poor pioneer women had lost their husbands needed support and so brother xxxxx stepped up and married them to provide for them”. Similar to your experience, polygamy was barely mentioned in any church setting I was in growing up, so you can bet I was upset when I learned about it so recently. In fact, when people give the old “everybody knows Joseph Smith was a polygamist and had 30 wives – what’s wrong with you?” argument, it makes me want to scream. Or at least begin discussing the stories that are true and very unsettling that I can just about be sure the people finding fault with my lack of knowledge about polygamy in my younger years do not know. Why not bring up the story of Zina and Henry and how they were manipulated? I don’t know how anyone can sift through the evidence supporting that story and be okay with it. How about the verbiage of D &C 132 – have your husband read through that from your perspective and see if he is okay with it. I’m not and have no clue how it could be considered divine. Yes, polygamy is a hot button for me.
This is an excellent question, LH, and the whole suicide and lack of caring bothers me immensely. I keep involved though because I want to be there if someone needs me. I hope I am walking the line such that one struggling for support because of their being gay feels they can approach me for help.
I truly wish that we had a culture where we are encouraged to DISCUSS more – church would be so much more enjoyable and maybe we could learn about accepting the experiences or others who differ from us and decide to love them in spite of it. I am selective on what I will say in class, but I will always speak up when the overarching theme of “righteous us versus the the rest of the world” comes up. I don’t know – I just become overcome with passion when that arises in class. I feel an obligation to try tearing down walls and helping all to realize that ALL are part of God’s family and deserve love and respect, even if we all don’t fit in the mold of the Church.
It can, and has, caused a tense moment or two in some HPG lessons I have been in, but I can’t stop myself sometimes
at which point I did not respond – it had gone far enough 
The interesting thing was that one of his younger relatives who was in the class commented that he agreed with me and that we needed to focus on loving others more.
I don’t know, I just feel like I have to speak up sometimes and represent those who get picked on.
This is a tough one because on one hand, I feel totally complicit like some bystander who does nothing when help is what is needed and required. The one thing that bothers me most is just how frightened members are of discussing anything related to “gay” and how obvious they are about fearing it. I can post any number of things on facebook about time I spend with my adult daughter who has rather severe disabilities. I’ll get “likes” from a couple dozen ward members (but then again, what isn’t there to love about my dear daughter who I take walking with me every morning?). Yet, I read this very moving blog post from Thomas Montgomery (
http://www.nomorestrangers.org/clarity/ ) and I post it on facebook while encouraging love toward others and the only people who like or comment are family members, one who happens to be my older sister with a gay son. I suppose at a minimum, those same ward members see I post stuff like this and know where I stand.In the end, I have settled on mom3’s approach. I want to be there to help and support. I hope I can present myself in some way that it will encourage the orthodox to think more about what pain they may be causing by throwing their weight behind this “revelation” while at the same time extending a hand to those who are hurting. Late last week I ordered some rainbow lapel pins and I hope they come soon so I can were one on my tie Sunday. I will simply wear one each week so that if gay ward members out there need help, they will know I am a safe person to approach.
Wow QuestionAbound, Reading through this thread just broke my heart! I had such optimism for a positive outcome on the first couple of pages only to be shattered by what your experience evolved into when your presentation was given. I TOTALLY admire your willingness to jump into the furnace on this, especially when difficult topics in meetings like this are always going to be spun somehow. The best I can hope for is that you and your husband can reach some kind of understanding on this and that it does not cause issues for the two of you.
I personally have no clue how one can study polygamy in the church without coming away disgusted with what it was all about. I’ll admit to having some very strong feelings on it due to personal experiences that make me see just how wrong it is.
Like a good returned missionary, I came home and married at a fairly young age. Just a few short years later, I lost my wife when she was only 23 to a terminal disease. We knew she would not survive and discussed what I would do after her passing – there were some tough conversations! For a long time, she did not want me to get married in the temple after she died, but within the last few weeks of her life, she gave her blessing. She knew that in our LDS lifestyle, any “good Mormon girl” that could be a future wife to me would require a temple marriage AND she wished I would have a happy life.
It was odd being a young widower in a single adult ward after she passed knowing that a) everybody knows how I came about to attend, and b) any girl I would date would know that according to church teachings, if she married me, she was entering into eternal polygamy, assuming, of course, that I was a faithful priesthood holder. I did find a wonderful woman who I took to the temple, but I know she had her own struggles with polygamy and the situation she was entering into.
This isn’t the end of my seeing what a mess polygamy is firsthand. As my first wife was in and out of the hospital over the course of several years, she had a very kind nurse that we got close to. The nurse was not much older than us and LDS. She had lost her husband who she married in the temple. In the LDS church, we all know that temple ceremonies only allow men to marry multiple times and not women. She was remarried to another LDS man outside the temple of course and I know it was difficult for her to think about it. Would the kids she planned to have be hers in the eternities?? What a hard thing to ponder!
My hope is that the church will reach a point some day when it totally disavows it!
Hi azguy, I haven’t been on this forum much lately but saw your thread on this topic – it’s a tough one but I felt like my approach might help you.
I, like others here, opt for the Gospel Essentials class with my wife when I don’t have an opportunity to teach a somewhat nuanced lesson to the youth (I’m in the Sunday School presidency) and for the most part, that works well. Gospel Doctrine can be so judgemental and terse in my neck of the woods (Utah, of course). High Priests Group can be difficult too and while I let some things slide, sometimes something comes up that is so out of whack, I have to offer a differing viewpoint. I am way lured into doing that when there is a focus on the old “us versus them” mentality and the lesson you had sounds like it was straight out of that mold.
I have found that generally if I share something of a personal experience and preface it by saying something like “In the experiences I have had throughout my life,
“. How can somebody argue with your personal experiences and how you are learning to be Christlike from them? The last time it happened the teacher was hinting about how hard it is for those of the world to care since they don’t have an eternal perspective on things. I promptly shared an experience about an extremely caring man I knew who was not Mormon and what an excellent example he was to me in trying to develop my own compassion toward others. After the lesson, a couple of High Priests in our group approached me and thanked me for my comments. One even spoke of his atheist business partner who is one of the most caring people he knows. Thanks for the feedback everyone. Loved the blog from the women who received all kinds of help in her struggles. I see this in the world today too. I agree that “us vs them” is a huge problem in our church as wayfarer has stated. It focuses on separating instead of supporting. In HPG group I really struggle sometimes to find the right comment to get people to expand and not accept this form of the status quo. Much of the time my comment comes out as “dudes, we all need to love everyone and be there for each other”. I guess I got to start somewhere
Ugh, Joni, this is such a bummer for you! I can’t imagine what it must be like when a spouse is simply committed to doing the “right” things they are told as my wife and I are mostly on the same page. She does have a brother though, who is quite by the book – is a former bishop with a wife very “committed” to the church. I one time posted how glad I was that gay marriage had passed in Utah and he commented how I was basically on the slippery slope to apostasy. Whatever. The truth is I think he has relaxed a little more about this as time has gone on. Have you tried putting your FB friends into groups? There are settings there that you can make posts viewable based on what group you have your friends in. You could put your MIL in the “sunshine and butterflies” group and just make it so that she sees photos of the kids, your vacation pictures and other happy moments without being able to view other items you post. Just a thought.
Many people within the church simply cannot handle what they view as unorthodox views and often these same people won’t even entertain learning about anything but what they are explicitly told to. It is an unfortunate reality and I find it better personally if I just let them be. Hope things get better for you.
This is simply unbelievable – I don’t even have the words for it. Why does a certain group of people perpetually have a target on their backs from Church Headquarters perspective?! I like, DJ, am deeply saddened and troubled. I don’t even know what to do about it other than the stewing I did throughout part of the wee hours of the morning. 😡 :thumbdown: I am so sorry you have had to deal with this throughout your life, Turinturambar – it truly saddens me, and I wish I could hasten change and acceptance. Knowing of the conference talks and most recently hearing about the policy change on children of gay couples leave me scratching my head over what they are trying to accomplish. It certainly is not love or compassion in my experience. Big hugs of comfort to you!!
Oh man, this thread is killing me. Lucky I’m there only one in the lunchroom right now. Thanks for the laughs!
Hi NonTraditionalMom, Just want you to know that there are other people out there (me) who feel the same way you do about this “you should have known” mantra flowing around the church right now. For one, it is incredibly un-Christlike and judgemental. To even have the the “you should have known” view, you must erroneously either be so committed to the church that you can easily discount the bad that has been done, or you must be so embedded in your own life that you believe all people share your experience of knowing and are incapable of showing the level of empathy God wants us to develop. At any rate, in my view, it is a pitiful position to be in and after I get past the anger I feel when somebody expresses it, I feel sorry for the person. They simply do not understand and are unwilling to seriously look at what pain and betrayal a fellow human being is experiencing. Just sad.
As for how I deal with it, I would say it is VERY difficult at times – I, like you, have felt great betrayal due to the level of trust I put into the Church and the decisions they have encouraged me to make. While many of those decisions have been good ones and have put me on a path to an enjoyable, fulfilling life, when I ponder on my standing up against “anti-Mormon” material (which we would now call “history”), I still feel the sting of betrayal.
As for going forward, I will trust in myself and my personal prayers WAY more than following church policies or “prophets”. I try to follow the teachings of Christ as I read and understand them more than the way somebody else wants to interpret them for me. I will also always go to sources outside the Church to get their views on what the Brethren are doing. Honestly, it is a much more balanced approach and has made me happier. Maybe it will work for you too, but at least it might be worth a try.
I am committed to the church and attend weekly and love my ward. It’s a great place to serve and nothing, in my mind, can compare to a “ward family” (I’ve had very good experiences in all my wards). But I know longer will tow the party line and am guided by how the Spirit speaks to me personally instead of just following others.
My thoughts are with you as you come to some resolution with this.
This is pretty funny that someone would make a deal of this. I wonder how I would fare in that ward being left handed and Celiac, so I don’t take the bread at all. That would get them talking! I saw it a couple weeks ago as my wife and I were up in Portland, Oregon and saw it at the visitors center there on the temple grounds. I have to say I loved it. The stories were touching to me, personally. But the thing I liked most of all was the Church’s effort at showing more diversity within its ranks. I hope this will edge those who think membership needs to be homogeneous away from that line of thinking. I made a comment about the movie to this effect yesterday in my rather homogeneous HPG yesterday
