[NewLight]

I don’t know why we church members as a group automatically think that if someone is homosexual, they are having sex (or at least want to have sex) virtually all the time. We view them as dirty perverts which then converts into our poor attitude of treating gays and lesbians that is in large part why a) so many of them get kicked out of their home, and b) why the suicide rate is so high amongst them. I’m speaking on the “macro” level here as I know there are individuals within the church who do not think that way.

Roadrunner, my experience with a family member who eventually came out was very troubling to me. He followed Elder Packer’s advice to pray it away, which of course did not and could not happen. He was a very spiritual boy and wanted to do the right thing and the stress caused him various health problems while it was going on. Now he is a well adjusted caring gay man who, not surprisingly, has nothing to do with the church.

I completely agree that you can “experiment” without it becoming sexual. I agree with others here about that kissing is not a sin. Let’s not forget about the ease at which those of us who are heterosexual here knew that we were. The flutter we experienced by holding some girl’s hand we found attractive in middle school and they nervousness we felt when we actually got to talk to her one on one. Nothing to do with sex as we Mormons define it.

Going back to the original question on how they can know whether they are homosexual, I think the first thing to do is not to overact to what they have already done (kissed). The second is to encourage them to remain chaste and committed to living a clean life. The third is to make it clear that you love them as their leader and that you won’t change that view no matter what their sexual orientation is. Finally, if there are outside, professional sources they can be referred to that are unbiased and not LDS (I don’t know if there are), I think that would be helpful.

The church can and does change – all the time. Let’s not forget how its viewpoint on sexual orientation has evolved already. Likewise, let’s not forget that we changed from an organization that preached the evils of monogomay (can you say Brigham Young and Orsan Pratt?) to one fully committed to monogamy with the “Proclamation to the World” to support it.

[NewLight]

I’d do it. You are saying it is “by assignment” so it sounds like you would have some level of control on how much you participate. Primary’s one of the best areas in the church to serve in and if it’s a chance to be there with your son a bit, that’s a bonus.

[NewLight]

I’d keep the original:

DarkJedi wrote:

“Because human nature desires rules, it is easy for us to get caught up in how far one should walk on the Sabbath and what color shirt one should wear to church and forget what it’s really all about.”

But then, I believe in being assertive and telling it like it is too. You could follow it up by talking about the importance of how Christ would make everyone feel welcome, no matter how they looked and I don’t think anyone can deny that.

Let those who teach the young men cover the white shirt thing as part of the lessons in their respective quorums about how to treat the sacrament.

[NewLight]

Okay, so I really am liking this particular thread, so I’ll do my part to bump it to the top. Just three things:

I got called in to meet with the bishop yesterday morning and was surprised to be asked to participate in a choir that will sing in General Conference this October. I love many of the messages that I hear through sacred music and am grateful I can be a part of it.

Sacrament meeting… great talk from a woman in our stake primary presidency. Part of it she talked about how close she was to a brother who died in an accident. This brother also struggled with schizophrenia throughout his adult life. I could really feel her love as she spoke about what she did throughout her life to help him cope.

My youngest daughter is getting ready to head out to her freshman college year away from home. I am very excited for her to have this experience, but it definitely does not comes without some strong emotions for me. Last night as she gave the family prayer, she closed it like she normally does by telling Heavenly Father that “we love thee so very much”. Then she sang a song to her older sister who has a severe disability but absolutely loves to be sung to. I’m going to miss that girl.

[NewLight]

I also love the symbolic side of ordinances and it is that view of them helps me personally to better understand what goes on in our earthly existence. I believe that almost any ceremony or “ordinance” that can bring one closer to God with a greater commitment to help our fellow beings is a good thing, so in my mind, “saving ordinances” do not necessarily tie themselves exclusively to the LDS church.

university wrote:

That being said, going to the LDS church makes me feel like a better person.

I, like you, feel this way. I agree that it can be very challenging navigating through it all when there are people you are surrounded by at church who strongly believe we all need to conform to one single ideal. Still, I try focusing on the good side and am moved by the individual actions of those around me who are truly trying to live a Christlike life.

[NewLight]

Very nice quotes, Ray – thanks.

There really are no substitutes for experiences that teach us to understand and love others as well as to be grateful for our experience here on earth and to notice the beauty.

[NewLight]

DBMormon wrote:

I am saddened to hear your experience. I wish there were two of us in every ward who knew each other. I would have spoke up in your defense.

I would have raised my hand and kindly but firmly seconded what you taught

Yeah, it would definitely have helped to have you in there, Bill, as another who could kindly back me up. It’s all about educating people and I just have to be as patient with it as I can.

And Ray, I do live in the Mormon corridor where in my area, we received this level of infamy not long ago:

http://wtkr.com/2012/10/01/girls-tossed-out-of-homecoming-dance-over-short-dresses/” class=”bbcode_url”>http://wtkr.com/2012/10/01/girls-tossed-out-of-homecoming-dance-over-short-dresses/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/stansbury-high-school-hem_n_1975018.html” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/stansbury-high-school-hem_n_1975018.html

The High Priests are a more difficult bunch. Still, I love these guys and hope that I can help broaden views in some way. If there is anything from my faith transition that I view as totally positive, it’s the attitude change toward being more accepting of others.

I’m just glad I have pretty thick skin when it comes to competing views and have a firm commitment to the church and helping it become better.

[NewLight]

Bill, it’s wonderful that you were able to do all these presentations without people totally losing it. Broadening members’ views and helping them become kinder and more accepting of those who experience faith transitions is what I pray for since experiencing one myself. It’s also one thing I hope I might play a role in as I continue as a faithful member.

I only wish that my lesson in High Priests last Sunday could have been as successful as your presentations. I decided to teach the part of Elder Uchtdorf’s “Come, Join With Us” talk from October 2013 conference that focuses on those who struggle and I emphasized what we all can do to be more accepting to those going through faith transitions so that they continue to feel welcome in the ward. Without going into details about the correct church history (I certainly don’t want to expose anyone to it – they have to make that choice themselves), I shared part of my own experience about the betrayal I felt from the church upon learning it.

In short, I had a difficult time keeping the lesson focused on the “what we can do to help people like me who go through this” topic. Several of the members were steering the conversations to blaming the victim with the “we are only supposed to read church approved materials” and “everything negative about the church on the Internet is false” arguments. Virtually nobody knew about any of the essays the church had published on lds.org to discuss difficult topics. While I did my best to keep things positive, I felt the lesson made people uncomfortable. Maybe my HP group just isn’t ready for this 😥 but I suppose it has to start somewhere.

Keep up the good work on your end – it’s encouraging to here about successful presentations and talks.

[NewLight]

Thanks for posting these, mom3. I REALLY needed to start the day out with something positive after a somewhat frustrating 3 hour block on Sunday.

Chieko was a great leader and very wise. I, like Ray, place her high on my “Favorite General Authorities” list.

[NewLight]

Welcome!

Without knowing much about your situation, I hope you can use this forum to find out more information and different views as you and your group sort things out. It’s very easy to be angry at first – I know I felt very betrayed when I was learning “the truth” from source outside the church. I think you will find this site and the postings it contains a valuable resource on your journey.

[NewLight]

Hi twolamps and welcome to the site!

It sure sounds like you have been through a lot and I just wanted you to know that I am glad you found us. I hope the forum here can help you sort some things out as well as provide a place where you can vent and bounce thoughts and ideas off of those who are like minded. As for me (and it sounds like you too), it has helped coming into this being a person who is not just black and white.

I wish you well as you sort things out and hope this place can be a good resource for you.

[NewLight]

Welcome to the site. I, too, was (still am) bothered by the lack of honesty about the church’s history. It is rough when you have been raised to be honest and loyal and then you find out the the institution that tried so hard to teach you those things was deceptive in doing so.

I think you will find a lot of good information in dealing with it here though. I really like this forum a lot because there are many people who have redefined their relationship with the church and are making it work for them. I personally favor that approach than being bitter and just ragging on the church for anything that is done. I look at the church more of an entity that encourages me to live the teachings of Christ now instead of being the “only true” one. And I have become a lot more careful what I say to people 😯 As a result, it’s freeing to come here for support.

[NewLight]

Sounds like it’s been pretty rough for you and unfortunately none of us here has a magic pill that will make things work out. But know that we are all pulling for you and hoping for the best.

[NewLight]

Welcome to the site, Stan.

If you are like me in any way, you will simply find coming here to be quite therapeutic.

[NewLight]

Glad you started this thread, DJ.

Last Sunday I got to teach the Primary kids about Ruth and Naomi. I know the story has been out there buried a bit, but it comes up in church once in a while. It’s the first time I dove in deeper since I was teaching it. It’s a great story about just being a kind, caring person. I find it interesting that a) it’s one of the few stories in any of the scriptures where the main “characters” are women, and b) the theme of the story is about kindness and love and Jesus was born in Ruth’s line.

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