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SamBee wrote:
NoahVail wrote:
I’d welcome some instruction about making chapels a sanctuary from politics – that led to meaningfully less politics from the stand.
Ooh, a difficult one. Party politics, yes, but the rest. Not so easy.
Here, politics is whatever divides most of us. Party politics is a party leveraging those issues.
Sometimes a party will spin a neutral issue until it divides us but preexisting animosity is generally easier to work with.
SamBee wrote:
I was in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and heard an opening prayer which mentioned something about the “security services”. Now, while I don’t support the IRA, I can see that phrase not going down well with anyone from a Roman Catholic/Republican background, because the British “security services” are widely seen as persecuting that community or even as an occupation force.That really seems like a prayer that would have been a better fit anywhere else. A more inclusive prayer could ask that officials be blessed.
I’d welcome some instruction about making chapels a sanctuary from politics – that led to meaningfully less politics from the stand. My sentiments are in line with James E Talmage’s 1919 assessment of that pandemic. Quote:There is every evidence of a very serious recrudescence of the influence trouble, there there is a manifest disinclination on the part of the newspapers to publish the full facts. This is said to be the result of pressure brought upon the papers by the business men, who insist that the enforced suspension of public assemblies and free business operations is bringing to them a loss that cannot be longer endured. Lives are being sacrificed in the interest of dollars.
While the physicians freely admit that the present scourge is a mystery disease, they are all agreed upon the fact that it is spread by contact, and that close assemblies are the principal means of communication. Today we have to mourn the departure of Bishop Edwin F. Sheets, Bishop of 33rd Ward, Liberty Stake, and Secretary of the General Board of Religion Classes. His wife and two children became infected with the influenza, and he contracted it in waiting upon them. He was one of our most useful men, and is cut off in the very prime of his activity, a victim of the dread scourge that is sweeping the land
Elder Talmage then went on to chronicle the temporary restrictions on Church meetings, w/o any cries of alarm. It’s as if he knew that temporary health measures weren’t any kind of attack on religion (they actually proceeded a century of strong growth of the Church).
ref:
https://cdm15999.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p15999coll20/id/55215 ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://cdm15999.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p15999coll20/id/55215 So say I drew a parallel, between the recent election and the War On Heaven – without directly ascribing anyone to the Satan role. Would that fly? Asking because I have trouble intuiting boundaries; understanding tends to follow some mistakes.
SamBee wrote:I would also flag up a comment on “fact checking” to be political, because that term has taken on a new impartial meaning recently.
I’m having trouble puzzling this out. Can you clarify?DarkJedi wrote:Discussions of politics not directly related to helping someone maintain their relationship with the church are therefore prohibited.Can I get this policy extended to my ward building?
I’m a bit shocked that anyone might be proposing physical, inside-the-home visits. We’re outside a metro area and have lower covid numbers. It’s also an area with a fair amount of anti-mask sentiment and covid denialisim. Even here, no one proposes inside the home visits. Visits are either distancing outdoors or more often over zoom.
I’m thankful for my family’s anti-social tendencies that have made the pandemic a pretty ok experience. Doubly thankful for our third year w/o me and my kids facing hunger.
I’m thankful for the complicated high councilman who posted “Masks are from Satan” in EQ chat and who found & delivered a free fridge to my ex yesterday.
I’m thankful for kratom bringing a bit of pain relief to a lot of people who no longer have access to meds, due to opioid hysteria.
I’m thankful for people who’ve helped us and for people we can help – which are never the same people because that’s how it works.
I’m thankful for this forum because that other BigMormonForum feels like such a battleground.
I’m going to push back a little bit on Mormon being offensive. Officially, it’s been depreciated. Casually, I think we’re expected to see it as non-preferred. I sincerely feel ‘offensive’ is a counterproductive adjective to describe Mormon. It’s long been our unofficial moniker. We’ll give people whiplash if we suddenly deem it offensive. Also, it’s not offensive.
More personally:
As to applying to Mormon to non-Church members, I take a bit of a stand there. I’ve found it’s common for the public to conflate splinter groups (and some of the terrible things they do) with our church. One way I draw a bright line between the Church and offshoots is to refer to us as Mormon. The other groups are whatever they are. Again, this is my personal way of handling that situation.
One of the few times I got consistent answers to prayers was in regards to apologies. When I hurt someone by doing something that was spontaneous & terrible – and that person was a sincere theist (any faith) – I found if I prayed for their hearts to be softened, they were.
In a couple of cases where consideration dictated that I not revisit my transgression, I could tell on first eye contact that they had forgiven me, as in eyes moist and smiling.
Either that or they had just carried out the perfect revenge. The smiles seemed kind, tho.
Before I attained “apology enlightenment”, there were times where I didn’t apologize and it was appropriate-ish. This was in situations where the other person(s) and I were enabling each other’s bad behavior. Apologizes didn’t seem worth the effort when we were just going to keep harming each other in the exact same way.
Minyan Man wrote:
I agree completely. In my mind, when you are new to the recovery program, you shouldn’t just jump into this step.My brother was a life-long idiot. A lot of my post was a statement on apologies in general.
I’ve learned that I should maximize the other person’s well being while dismissing my own desires as much as I can.
SilentDawning wrote:
I am curious — how do you respond to being berating this way after an apology and agreement to stop doing whatever it is that offended the person failed?From an old talk by Henry Eyring I know that even people who hurt us are doing about the best they can. Some aren’t capable of processing an apology. They might be one day but it isn’t today and won’t be tomorrow either. Change takes time.
That’s for people who mistreat us. What about people who simply don’t forgive us?
From that, I disconnect myself because it isn’t my business. Forgiveness begins and ends inside one person’s head. And that’s when it’s a good fit for them, which isn’t always.
ref: Almost everything I know about forgiveness and apologies, I learned during the last 10 years.
Minyan Man wrote:
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
I watched my brother do this after AA. It was not always well received. What bothers me is the “well that’s on them” thinking that follows a bad reception. It’s completely devoid of empathy and consideration for that other person. Done like that, the apology becomes an arrogant new wrong.
Before opening old wounds w/o consent, we have a responsibility to know our audience as well as we can. If needed, we should get wise counsel from people capable of giving it. If this could clearly go either way, leaving it alone is a worthwhile option.
