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For today’s video services, everyone at the chapel wore a mask except when speaking. Everyone wiped down the podium before walking away. It seems like the bishopric is taking the precautions seriously & setting an example. I didn’t expect that.
Happy to have misjudged them.
Minyan Man wrote:
This is another side to this issue of dealing with a pandemic. I know there are members who have moved intoour ward during the lockdown & we haven’t been able to introduce ourselves except by email or a text.
Ha. We went and unloaded the move-in’s truck. Masks, gloves, sanitizer & a heat index of 110. That’s every day but you get it.
Minyan Man wrote:If it hasn’t already, we are going to see more people & members in emotional or mental troubles because of the lack of personal, human contact. I can see a little within my own family.
The last of the people we hung with have moved away. Of the members under 100, every conversation is all politics now. Like, really acerbic politics. It was like that before the pandemic. My kids and I are happier hanging together. Less dark vibes.Minyan Man wrote:These are interesting time. I hope this pandemic doesn’t last much longer. Some of us may not survive.
I hope I’m wrong.
At least when the pandemic is gone your ward will be disease free. I think what’s infected our ward is going to be here for a long time.NoahVail wrote:
As a Church member, my position is: “God better have a %!#* good reason because this costs us more by the day”.It occurs to me that this is a selfish position because it totally ignores that the meaningful burden was never born by me but by black Church members.
SilentDawning wrote:
Roy wrote:
I was having this discussion with an individual recently. It was being theorized that the priesthood ban was started by God to reduce the amount of persecution that the church would face from a racist society.
I agree with your comments on this Roy — the priesthood ban has actually caused more “persecution” of us as a religion because we practiced the priesthood ban. We would have been better off in the long run if we had extended the priesthood to all races from the very beginning.I agree.
I introduced this issue this to my sister (who doesn’t know much about the Church) and I shared that I am unhappy with this bit of my Church history. I shared that a general authority gave a Q&A on this at a stake meeting. He explained that we don’t know why the Lord imposed this and we don’t know why the Lord lifted it. I (uncharacteristically) found that I accept that. That doesn’t alleviate my concern, however. It is still not okay with me.
When Dead Me appears before the Lord, my first words are “I need you to explain this”.
(clarification: not demand, not owed – it is something I need. perhaps it is weakness, idk).
I was using this conflict to illustrate a couple of points I was making. One was that when I join or adopt something, it’s history is mine. To believe otherwise is dishonorable and enables future bad behavior, in my experience.
The other is a lately learned lesson; it’s okay for beliefs to conflict. The idea that “having conflicting beliefs equals hypocrisy” is bogus. I learned that conflicting beliefs likely indicates an incomplete understanding. In a church setting I’d use the “Flaws mean Joseph Smith can’t be a prophet” thing as an example. It’s used to force a “Discussion ends now; you must choose against” scenario.
A wiser choice is to accept reasonable evidence (pos or neg) as likely fact and then further consider the implications.
In this case it lead me to consider other OT prophets. I realized they were all deeply flawed people. Noah was a drunk. Jonah seemed to be a coward. I don’t know what Isaiah was. But with all of them, when the mantle of God was put upon them they became greater than they were and did miraculous things. When the mantle was taken, many flailed around, trying to rediscover their purpose. All this indicates that the testimony was never about the people but the mantle.
Accepting hypocrisy as a respectable concept would have killed that line of thought in the cradle – which was likely the intent.
Regarding blacks being denied the priesthood, I am very unhappy with it and I accept it and that’s it. I can not excuse it because I do not know why it happened. Along with the Church’s clarification that “The Lord ordered this. We don’t know why”, I would prefer “It sucks” be added. I don’t think I’m going to get that.
As a Church member, my position is: “God better have a %!#* good reason because this costs us more by the day”.
That feels reasonable to me.
Minyan Man wrote:He has been in contact with people at his clinic & his parents. My Brother & SIL. Both have health issues that can quickly be compromised.
That seems like a lot of worry. Are your family members finding some peace, to offset that worry?I’m a bit hesitant to say how we’re doing because – well, this has been the best year we’ve had in a very long time. To be fair, they were pretty black years so it’s not like the bar was all that high. During the black time I went from very social to anti-social but guess what? It turns out a pandemic compliments that really well. I am also (really really) fortunate+blessed to be able to work remotely.
I am enjoying the empty-ish roads. A lot. Maybe too much.
However, I’m not totally insensitive to the profound challenges that people are facing. To explain, a lot of the hardships people are facing right now (health, food, housing), that was our 2009. It was also our 2010. And our 2011 and every single year that followed until about a couple of years ago. Now we have food, like, all the time. Food is so awesome when you have (5!) kids. I am sleeping in an actual bed. Luxury! We have (aged but reliable) cars again.
So, we’re pretty good. But a lot of people are now heading where we’ve been – including some folks who never got our breaks.
I’ve reached out to the EQ Pres and said we (6 guys) are available to help. We had a few opportunities from that. I’m doing a bit to help an online PTSD support group. I do regular stuff for a sometimes-homeless couple. Frankly, we could do a lot more. I am looking.
If I have anything constructive to offer the forum, it might be this.
Back when things were dark and we couldn’t do much for ourselves, we wound up doing service projects because it was the only thing we actually could do. We did a LOT of moves (again, 6 guys). It really was a matter of efficiency & pragmatism. Helping people was less terrible than the alternative – helping no one (ie: us). My fragile male ego can take only so much failure. Well, okay. Not that true. I can take a lot but the failure then was just endless and compounding every year. Accomplishing something – anything at all – provided enough self-esteem that we could survive.
I’m not claiming we endured with a cheerful countenance because I wouldn’t be cheerful after winning a lottery of rainbows. But we did endure.
tl;dr: If it’s bad and you can’t help you, help anyone else at all.
Minyan Man wrote:
Up to now I thought I was handling it fairly well, this afternoon I found out my nephew has tested positive. He is a health care worker. Currently the symptoms are mild & he can quarantine at home with his family close by.Covid news can be tough, scary, uncertain and unsettling. However, ‘nephew’ indicates he’s younger, which seems strongly encouraging. Mild symptoms are more encouraging still. All things considered, it sounds like his prospects are about as good as it gets.
Here’s wishing a full recovery.
DarkJedi wrote:
Our area is also limited to 25. The bishop very carefully planned and divided the groups to keep it under that number and made it clear that we cold only attend on our assigned Sunday. He also said that in the event that somehow more than 25 showed up they would be turned away. On the one Sunday we have been so far there were 16.I applaud their wisdom. I hope it spreads everywhere.
There’s kind of a vibe here that the pandemic is somewhere between made-up and overblown. Back in April, I showed up to pick up a food order for a couple. The Relief Society president saw me wearing a mask and indicated she was disappointed that I had fallen for the hoax.
Old-Timer wrote:Thus, I am not attending church in person until every restriction is in place – at least – and probably not even then until the overall risk drops significantly. I explained that simply and directly to my bishops
Ha. I’d love to watch you deliver that to my bishopric. Especially the part where they cock their heads and wonder why you suddenly started speaking in a foreign language.
SilentDawning wrote:
I also agree that simply opting out of attendance is a healthy response to lackadaisical attitudes toward preserving the health of members.
I’m confident this is good advice, pretty much anywhere. It’s just that in our ward, our absence won’t register. People drop out all the time and that’s the end of it.
DarkJedi wrote:
I seem to be confused.You’re having Zoom meetings – why the concern about masks?
Just the Sacrament meetings are over Zoom (well attended, btw). Leadership meetings and events are in person. None of the in-person meetings apply to me.DarkJedi wrote:Or are you looking to the future when you do have meetings?
I dunno. I haven’t been thinking that far ahead.I really do like the Zoom thing. I became non-social a while back and our crowded, very very loud sacrament meetings were super unpleasant.
DarkJedi wrote:So, I’m with Nibbler on this. I would not attend and would say why – and I would be sincere because I would actually be concerned.
The Sunday meeting is being held over Zoom. Kudos to our stake president for that direction.
The in-person meetings are not ones that I’d attend – eg: groups I’m not a part of. Even so, member absences generally aren’t noticed. Leaders, whole families, whoever will drop off and most of them won’t register. I don’t know why; it’s just always been that way. My mother-in-law says it’s the water.
Sort of related: I run an obit scraper & query the results against our roster every day. I get emailed on hits. So at least when Covid takes them, I’ll notice.
nibbler wrote:In that scenario I’d opt out of attending all in-person meetings. If asked why I’m not attending, I’d let them know that I didn’t feel safe and if pressed further I’d list my conditions for returning.
I had considered that. Like everything about my ward, I’m content to just let it go.
However, I was prompted to post here because of our wards’ high numbers of superspreaders (kids) & super-vulnerable (elderly). There is a meaningful chance of members dying and/or being gravely injured by Covid. FL is a really hot zone.
nibbler wrote:
6. You stick with looking for car keys until you find them.IDK man. I only find my keys after I quit looking for them. Or I don’t.
One time was after weeks of looking, spread across 2 counties. A month later, I found them in a drawer in the garage where (I presume) my 4yo had deposited them after our family outing.
The other time was when I had left my work keys in the van door pouch and my wife stole the van during a psychosis. 400 miles away she gave it to a drifter who later totaled it in a hit and run. It was eventually impounded so I knew where they were then (probably) but I didn’t have the impound fees. It turns out I didn’t need my work keys any more because no transportation to work.
