[Only Love]

SilentDawning wrote:

Neutralize the effects. Share how the church is changing to be more gender friendly. Even if it’s not enough.

Neutralize the “stay home and have babies” forever message, and teach the boys about non-sexist behavior at church and in the world.

Thanks, SilentDawning. I’m starting to realize maybe I can have more of an influence than I thought.

[Only Love]

Roy wrote:

Quote:

Is it worth it raising daughters in the church?

For myself, I believe it is important to provide a counter to the hyper-sexually charged messages that my children receive in the school/media world they breath. Some of my daughter’s school friends wear heavy makeup and have boyfriends at 12. I anticipate that boyfriends will eventually pressure girlfriends into some form of sexual relationship (isn’t that the point of being boyfriend/girlfriend).

I do not want my daughter to “drink the Kool-Aid” at church. Nor do I want her to accept without challenge the messages that she gets from her peer group, the media, and other sources.

I hope to provide her with several examples of life patterns to help her understand that she is not limited to just one.

Yes, yes, and yes! I’m realizing more and more that what I missed in my life growing up was a balance… a realization that not everything in the church was “true” and perfect and that I could make decisions for myself even if they were different from the pathway laid out for me by the church. I hope with my daughters I can teach them to borrow the good from the church and the good from elsewhere.

[Only Love]

Roy wrote:

Yes, I told DD that the holy ghost was the divine spark within her that will guide her into who she is to become. Her parents know only in part, her teachers know only in part, she herself may know only in part but the HG knows God’s unique plans for her and he will prompt her in key moments. I feel that this interpretation is doctrinally sound. More importantly, I want DD to learn to trust her internal compass.

I love that!

Roy wrote:

Hawkgrrrl has written something to the effect that even though the church hierarchy remains highly closed to women, the majority of LDS marriages seem to be remarkably cooperative, respectful, and egalitarian. I seem to remember her speculating that the churches focus on family can make men more helpful in childrearing (changing diapers and otherwise co-parenting). Of course there are no guarantees, but there is something to be said for the church grooming YM to become better than average marriage partners.

I think there is a lot of truth to that. It’s the institutional sexism that concerns me. But you are right, I need to remember this.

[Only Love]

Heber13 wrote:

Do you feel you are sexist to your wife because you hold the priesthood?

No, because I’m a woman 😆

Heber13 wrote:

Both my daughters are married to fine priesthood holders that love and support them 100%.

Thankfully, I have the same blessing in my life. In fact, my husband has always been more open to my following whatever life path (such as working outside the home vs staying home with the kids) I want than I am!

Heber13 wrote:

my daughter NEVER feels the sexism in the church and frankly doesn’t understand women who do (because she hasn’t experienced it from me growing up in our home, or the guys she has dated). That is her experience so far and she is naive to many issues, and I think sexism in the church bothers me more than her…

I was actually the same way until I hit my faith crisis.

I think you are right that there are many, many great men in the church. In fact I think often (though not always) men are better for having been raised in the church. It is mostly institutional sexism that concerns me.

[Only Love]

dande48 wrote:

For example, all young women are strongly encouraged (almost coerced) into getting a college education, serving as full-time missionaries, and working for a period after.

Dande48, I’m intrigued by this. Are you referring to in the church or outside of it? I can see that being true outside of the church, but I very much had the opposite experience in the church (and I graduated from BYU less than a decade ago.)

[Only Love]

AmyJ wrote:

There are messages I like at church. I like the teachings that every child is a child of God with innate worth and potential, so I focus on that. When my daughter was baptized last year, I focused the combined Baptism/Holy Ghost talk on joining the community of saints and having a gift tailored to her individual needs in life.

To counter the sexism in the church, I guess I try to use the tools that I internalize myself to teach her about her role.

Thanks, AmyJ. There are definitely messages at church that I like, too. I love your baptism talk focus and the examples you gave of talking things through with your daughter. Do you point out the sexism in the church to her specifically?

[Only Love]

Thank you for the responses. I think something that will help a lot is raising my daughters (and son) to think for themselves. The way I was raised in the church, the brethren were ALWAYS speaking for God and thus they were ALWAYS right. And the way the church was run was “true.” I believed that without really questioning it. I remember when my oldest was born and I was struggling with depression and wanting to get a job, telling my husband, “but I HAVE to be a stay-at-home mom! That’s what righteous women do!” I didn’t believe I had a choice in the matter. I’m just realizing these last couple of years how much I internalized a limited view of what women can and should do and how it has held me back. I’m starting to embrace my own power and ability to make choices for my life which is exciting! It is so important to me that my daughters don’t go through what I went through.

[Only Love]

This is profound! Thank you for sharing!

[Only Love]

It would sadden me but it wouldn’t change my participation here.

It would, however, make me even more scared than I already am to be authentic with fellow LDS about my unorthodox views.

[Only Love]

BeJoyful wrote:

Your story and journey are just so similar to mine- it’s like you’re writing my story. I’m new here, only 5 or 6 months of posting, a little more than a year observing. Welcome!

Thanks, BeJoyful! It’s always good to know I’m not alone. I wish we could be friends in real life!

On Own Now wrote:

Only Love,

I just want to say two things:

– I’m sorry that you are going through this. Yes, we can find new ways to grow, love, and become fulfilled, but there’s no denying that it’s a sucker punch to the gut to experience a faith crisis. I feel for you, as do others here. I’m at peace now and feel good about where I am, but I also still remember the hurt and the tears.

– Welcome to this site. I look forward to hearing your added voice here.

Thank you for your kind words, On Own Now. They mean a lot. It is definitely hard sometimes.

LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:

Welcome to the site! Looking forward to hearing your views as you navigate this sea. This has been a safe place for me to get some assistance in the navigation myself,

Thanks, LDS_Scoutmaster!

SilentDawning wrote:

Only Love wrote:

Hello! I am so excited to officially join this community. I’ve been reading (okay, devouring) posts on here for a few months and I have been blown away by the love and wisdom in this community. I’m at a point in my journey where I feel a great desire to connect with like-minded (and “like-hearted”) people so I am so grateful to have found this forum.

I read your whole post, but how can I not welcome someone who thinks our posts are full of mind blowing love and wisdom?

Thanks for joining us — hope to learn from you.

Ha! Thanks, SilentDawning!

[Only Love]

Old Timer wrote:

I’m glad to hear about someone devouring our posts.

Welcome!

Ha ha! It’s true, though!

Ann wrote:

Hi, Only Love –

I also feel much closer to God now than back in my orthodox days. But it’s interesting to me that we still thirst for conversation with like-minded people. I also believe, like you said, that God can teach me something in the midst of the excitement of knowing him better and the distress of losing faith in the institution.

Glad you’re here and hope it’s helpful.

Thanks, Ann

[Only Love]

LookingHard wrote:

Welcome Welcome. I am always glad to see someone start posting here. Not in any “oh good – another person no longer is a TBM”. It is more that in my experience, this site helped me start healing. I have mentioned before that I REALLY began to heal once I meet with some folks face to face and was validated I wasn’t crazy/stupid/evil/etc. I always encourage folks to find a friends somewhere that you can talk with.

And on the “moving into stage 5”, it does feel good. But like the waves in a beach, I have found for me I bounce around 4 and 5 much more than I thought I would. I have learned to stop fighting the tide and realizing I am just dealing with this the best I can. Lately I feel much more like I have slid back into stage 4 and I think it is because I am about to be much more open and I am fearing the rejection and pushback that I might (will?) get and the heartache I will feel and cause in others (like my parents).

Please contribute your thoughts. Even after years and being in a much different place than when I started I still get benefit from this site.

Thank you, LookingHard! I think you are right, I too bounce around between the different stages. And I can understand how getting ready to open up would make that so difficult. I wish you the best in that.

I have one friend in my stake whom I can talk to about my faith transition. She lives far away and I don’t see her much, but on the rare occasion she can, having someone to talk about this face to face with is the best thing ever! Do you have any suggestions on finding such people? I know there might be people in my ward, but I am too afraid to talk about my faith issues there so I haven’t been able to connect with anyone.

[Only Love]

Hi VF, I don’t really have any answers, but I wanted to let you know you are SO not alone. I’m a fellow stay at home mom of little ones with other ambitions and I very much share your concerns about how to raise my kids now that I see things with the church so differently than I used to. I did the same as you, seeking out answers from church-approved sources and ending up with more questions. I wish we could meet up for a playdate! I just joined staylds as well and I’m hoping we can all support each other in this crazy journey!

[Only Love]

Thank you so much for the replies! It feels really good to be authentic with people, even if it is online. I really, really appreciate you all!

Beefster wrote:

Josh Weed’s divorce was my tipping point when I decided that the church was 100% wrong about gay people and was wrong all those years lobbying against them.

Mine too

Beefster wrote:

The church truly has beauty and truth in it and is a great place for many people.

Thank you for this. It really does. Sometimes I focus so much on the negatives and it always helps to stop and remember the beauty. I have a couple in my stake who have successfully moved to stage 5 or 6 – the only people I know in real life who have gone through a faith crisis and stayed in the church, and the only ones in my stake who know about my situation – and the rare times I get to chat with them I am amazed by how they radiate that. They look for beauty in many different places, even different religions, but they do talk about the unique beauties within the LDS faith and they choose to stay.

DarkJedi wrote:

My thoughts on gay marriage and gays in general have definitely evolved over my years in the church.

Thank you for sharing your experiences, Dark Jedi. It is amazing to see how we all change overtime. I, too, believe in the law of Chastity, but I wish we applied it equally to both gay and straight members.

Roy wrote:

Welcome Only Love,

Only Love wrote:

I believe Jesus now – love is the greatest commandment! I am trying everyday to live that way.

I see things similarly. I am not promised tomorrow and even if tomorrow comes, I have such limited ability to control it. I do practice and advocate some reasonable preparation for the future – but I try hard to make sure that preparing for tomorrow does not take up all of my focus today.

I feel this is particularly pertinent to my parenting. I teach my kids to read and write, to plan, to budget, to delay gratification. And yet, above all, I want them to know each and every day that they are a unique and essential member of our family, that they are impressive and wonderful as the individuals that they are, and finally that they are loved with a family that will stand by them no matter the difficulty or the sorrow.

Only Love wrote:

Instead of seeing those who don’t follow the letter of the law of the church as apostates, I see myself judging them as having the greater sin

My own mother once told me that I can be intimidating in my beliefs. What I believe she meant is that I had such conviction, certainty, and “clarity” that it can be hard for others to talk to me without feeling intimidated.

I look back at my former self with charity. I was the only boy in the family. I felt it was my responsibility to do my duty in carrying on the family name and heritage. I checked all the boxes. I served a mission and married in the temple. So, looking back at myself and my “greater sin” I have to feel that God is very liberal in his mercy and forgiveness. I feel to cry out, “God forgive me, for I knew not what I did then and still have such limited understanding of the effects of my actions in the here and now.”

Perhaps we are all as children on the playground. Some are very popular and confident. Others are lonely and shy. Some are sweet and giving. Others are surly and defensive. Sometimes we all play nice together and take turns. Sometimes we divide into groups. Sometimes we misunderstand and even hurt each other. But at the end of the day we are still children. I believe those things that seem to matter to children – who “started it” and who had the “greater sin” are much less important from God’s perspective.

Again welcome! I look forward to hearing more from you.

Wow, Roy. Thank you. Your analogy of children playing on a playground is profound. I love that.

I can relate with your situation growing up. I was the oldest in my family and the only girl for most of my growing up years and I felt a responsibility to do everything perfectly by the book and please my parents.

Your words help me have greater charity for myself as well.

And I’m definitely with you about the parenting. I like to tell my kids, “I love you forever and always no matter what.”

[Author]

Posts