[Opalsky]

dande48 wrote:

I don’t believe God deliberately tries to fool anyone, by planting false evidence. You can take what you learn from science, and what you hear from in Church and mesh them together in a hundred different ways.The Church gives no definitive answers, beyond what’s already been said (not including what they’ve redacted).

Neil Degrass Tyson wrote:

Every Scientific truth goes through three phases.

First, they deny it.

Second, they say it comflicts with the bible.

Third, they say they have known it all along.

But whether the story is true or not, what difference would it make? Many of the greatest stories on the nature of man, our relationship to one another and to God, our trials and suffering, come from works of fiction. Whether Adam and Eve were created directly, or evolved from monkeys, or never existed doesn’t matter. What matters is their story and the lessons it teaches us.

Opalsky wrote:

Also I have been told it wasn’t God who created this earth directly but it was through his son Jesus Christ that the earth was made under Gods direction. Is this solid doctrine?

It’s in the Perl of Great Price, as well as the temple ceremony. So I’d say it’s official doctrine, if that’s what you’re asking.

I think it does matter because why can’t church doctrine be more direct? Why all the riddles?

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[Opalsky]

Roy wrote:

Opalsky wrote:

Also I have been told it wasn’t God who created this earth directly but it was through his son Jesus Christ that the earth was made under Gods direction. Is this solid doctrine?

Some great resources at this link for FairMormon: https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Mormonism_and_the_nature_of_God/Elohim_and_Jehovah

Essentially the bible is not entirely clear on the point of who created the earth. Much of the bible is monotheistic and teaches one God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel. That God is called by Elohim, Jehovah, and Adonai as various titles depending on what roles or attributes the writer was trying to emphasize.

When Christianity came along there was a big question as to how Jesus fits in with God the father. Is he a prophet/messiah/promised king? is he the son of God? is he the personification of God? Lots of different ways to interpret the scriptures.

What eventually became pretty commonplace in the western church was the idea of the Trinity. Jesus is everything. He is messiah, prophet, promised king, Son of God, and personification of God – all rolled up into one person.

I have reason to believe that the trinity was still the dominant understanding of God during the early years of the church. The BoM seems very Trinitarian (Much more than the bible).

Eventually The understanding of the “Godhead” evolved with God and Jesus as more definitely separate individuals. Still there was not clarity as to the titles of the different members of the Godhead. For example, “Nineteenth-century Mormons—including Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and John Taylor—generally used Jehovah as the name of God the Father”

Quote:

In 1916 the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles issued a doctrinal statement on the relationship between the Father and the Son: “Jesus the Son has represented and yet represents Elohim His Father in power and authority. This is true of Christ in His preexistent, antemortal, or unembodied state, in the which He was known as Jehovah; also during His embodiment in the flesh; …and since that period in His resurrected state”

Since 1916 the LDS church has been fairly consistent with assigning the name Elohim to God the Father and Jehovah to Jesus Christ.

As far as I understand it God is the father of our spirits. Christ, the Jehovah and son of God can be considered a father symbolically as well simply because he atoned for us and we can be spiritually reborn through him. God the father, his son and the Holy Ghost comprise the Godhead which is one unit. Kind of like how a family is “one” but has separate beings. I don’t fully understand the nature of the holy spirit and who he is or his history in the gospel but I know the role he plays for us and I do believe in the spirit because I’ve felt that presence.

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[Opalsky]

I will expand on my personal thoughts on this subject

I’ll start of by saying I believe that for God all things are possible and that his divine hand is in everything. However some of the doctrine does not add up. There’s a lot I am relatively confused about honestly. I would like to better understand these things.

The church teaches with the fall of Adam came mortality and death. Adam and Eve lived in the garden of eden in a paradisal state and could. They could not bare children until they partook of the fruit.

Scientific studies teach us that Species have lived and died on the earth for around 560 million years. Fossils from ancient extinct ancestors have been discovered that date millions of years ago. The modern form of humans only evolved about 200,000 years ago. Civilization as we know it is only about 6,000 years old. Industrialization started in the earnest only in the 1800s. It could be argued that humans have advanced more recently. Research comparing anatomy and genetics says humans are most closely related to chimpanzees.

I have mused that perhaps the garden wasn’t a place but more of a state of mind. Kind of like animals and children with a limited agency. A state of ignorance. I thought perhaps there is symbolism but I have since been told the garden of eden was an actual place on earth. I have considered that perhaps apes and monkeys exist to help humans to study them and better understand themselves in certain aspects.

Also I have been told it wasn’t God who created this earth directly but it was through his son Jesus Christ that the earth was made under Gods direction. Is this solid doctrine?

[Opalsky]

Thanks for the replies and welcome everyone. Sorry I don’t have time to reply all of you individually. https://YouTu.be/_QjE63wSA0M this talk is geared towards women but I think it’s a good talk for everyone.

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