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Thank you for this post. I am not ready to start praying again, but when I do, I think it might look something like this. I know this is my hippie nature coming out, but I have read information regarding praying with the moon. I have done that in the past few months, and it felt really powerful. If I weren’t such a chicken I might have the courage to go to the mountain and pray alone, but I would be praying to not be eaten by a bear instead..haha My “prayers” are more of the meditation type that Convert suggests. With no words, just stillness and connecting.
cwald wrote:I would probably start talking birth control at this point, if you haven’t already.
Abstinence is a great goal…but it can get worse.
I would also let them date as in movie nights at your home and her home. Supervised. If they are going to mate, they will find a way. … but at least this way they know you disapprove of premarital sex yet understand their biological drive and needs.
Just my opinion.
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I second this. Esp the supervised date nights at your home.
I agree, you will never know unless you ask the BP. However, I completely understand your apprehension of meeting with the bishop since you just barely had that meeting with him. I also must admit that this post stressed me out and here is why: My recommend expired 9 days ago, the first time in 18 years. I never even let it go even for one week before. I don’t want my name to be on that list. I don’t know why I am so scared to have an open discussion with my bishop, or any other leader, for that matter. It was bad enough that I had a zealous family friend over here tonight giving me a Old Testament SS lesson since I told him I have never read the Old Testament and don’t ever intend to…I just don’t love being preached to or trying to be “sold” something that I am not interested in. I don’ feel the need to be “saved” and I know that would be the intent if leaders started to come to my house.
Last week my DH and I had a discussion where I opened up more and told him more concerns and the fact that I started drinking coffee again. He was really sad, not because I drink coffee, but because I can’t get a temple recommend. I told him that I could easily quit drinking coffee, but that wasn’t my biggest concern regarding renewing my TR, far from it. I can’t imagine how I would answer the questions. I also didn’t enjoy my last temple experience at all and don’t have a desire to return any time soon, if ever. But I was so sad that and felt like I was breaking my husbands heart, that I was half tempted to go get an apt with the bishop and “fix’ everything. But I just can’t. I wouldn’t even know how to “fix” it. I would feel so dishonest answering those questions, I don’t believe much of anything anymore.
Beautiful experience. Thanks for sharing. Didn’t come across as bragging at all. I love the reminder regarding Angels. Again, I wish I knew what to say, but I don’t. All I want to say is that my heart goes out to you, your wife and your son. ((((hugs)))) I hope y’all come to a peaceful solution soon. It is so hard to watch your children make “mistakes” that will probably lead to heartache. I am not looking forward to it it. Sometimes I wish I could lock my kids in bubbles and never let them go anywhere. But then I think of Dory, from Nemo.
Quote:Marlin: I promised I’d never let anything happen to him.
Dory: Hmm. That’s a funny thing to promise.
Marlin: What?
Dory:
Well, you can’t never let anything happen to him. Then nothing would ever happen to him. Not much fun for little Harpo.
I guess we have to let our kids make mistakes even if it seems that it will break their hearts. I made some SERIOUS mistakes as a teenager and I turned out fine. (Face and neck twitching..haha)
:crazy: But seriously, hugs to all of you.
I love your new found attitude about repentance. I could 100% relate to your former views and guilt/shame when I heard the word repent.. and do more, do more do more.. I can kill myself trying to be perfect. This reminds me of a blogpost that Curtis posted on Repentance. I actually used it in my lesson today. “
http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2008/01/rethinking-repentance.html Quote:The Bible Dictionary defines “repentance” as: “a change of mind, i.e., a fresh view about God, about oneself, and about the world”. That is absolutely fascinating – and it is this fresh view that is part of being poor in spirit.
I LOOOVED reading this for the first time because I have been terrified of God for as long as I remembered. I “knew” he loved me, but that he would also punish me at any given moment for not obtaining perfection and for messing up over and over and over again. I feel that I have repentance because since my FT I “view God , myself and others due to my “repentance process” also known to me as my “Faith Transition”.
arghhh, I just lost my post. Anyway, what i said was basically, I don’t have the best advice as our oldest is only 13. But I really like OON’s advice.
Quote:One thought that comes to mind is to separate out the behavior from the relationship. Forbidding contact, as her parent have done, probably does more to encourage the sexting; Teens love to get away with what is forbidden.
I DO think it important not to shame the behavior. It is something they DID not WHO they are, and even admitting to your son on how normal wanting sex etc.. is at that age. There is no shame in it. But behaviors have consequences and those consequences could be painful and last for a long time. The guilt could later turn to shame later in life. I was thinking it might be beneficial for you to figure out your own feelings and possible fears in this situation. For example, what is the worst thing that will happen from this, why does it bother you so bad. What shame or guilt does it pull up from your past if any? Fear can cloud our judgment in how we handle situations. I have noticed when I release the fear I can handle situations so much more clearly. I don’t even know if that makes sense and I hope I didn’t come accross as “Know it all” because I don’t know anything..haha That is just my 2 cents and I also know when you are IN the situation it is hard to see the forest for the trees.
On Own Now wrote:Alex, thanks so much for sharing this.
And please remember that you have friends here, who hope for the best for you.
I ditto this!
You have friends here in our unique ward. That story was heartwarming.
Quote:Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
SomeUsername84 wrote:I have always been kind of an “a la carte Mormon,” accepting that not everything that proceedeth forth from the mouth of a man is the will or opinion of the Lord. The only thing that has really changed is my definition of the word “prophet” and my perspectives on the literality of the Book of Mormon. I still believe that there are many good and inspired things in the church. I just don’t believe that all things are/were. If that makes me apostate in some people’s eyes,
I’m ok with that. My faith is my own.As I have gotten over my feelings of disillusionment and confusion, and as my wife and I have continued to talk about the way I feel, things are getting easier every day. I feel like my personal religion is becoming purer again and that is one of the best feelings in the world.
I did have a very uncomfortable meeting with the bishop yesterday, however. My wife felt like she needed someone to talk to and asked if I would be ok with her talking to the bishop. I decided that it was a sacrifice that I was willing to make. I knew it would bring many uncomfortable discussions with him; but, I also knew that she needed someone who might be able to help her with her side of the situation. Let me just vent for a second and say that I DO NOT FEEL LIKE I NEED TO BE “SAVED” FROM THIS. I feel better for it. And it made me really uncomfortable and frustrated to try to explain my concerns while he tried to “reconvert” me. I felt so alone and angry afterward that I just went home and sobbed. It was absolutely awful for me.
First of all I want to applaud your statement “I am OK with that. My faith is my own!”. I love that. I wish I have been more a-la-cart than I was. It may have made this transition a little smoother for me. It is wonderful to hear your how open you and your wife are. That is so key! You are blessed to be able to talk so openly with her.
Regarding your convo with your bishop, I am soooo sorry that it was so frustrating! I can only imagine. I am dreading the day. I am finally opening up more and more to my husband. It has been amazing and he has been a so patient and loving, and I am learning how to communicate more than I ever have in my life. He asked me to talk to our bishop. I told him I just can’t because of how he treated a friend of mine (not accepting middle way). And I just am not ready for someone to try to re-convert me because just as you feel, I don’t feel I need to be saved from this!
mom3 wrote:On Own – I too struggle with this line
Quote:“Good and evil thoughts cannot coexist in our minds any more than light and dark can exist at the same time and in the same place.”
I could write pages on it. People with depression or anxiety often have multiple coinciding thoughts – light and dark – fighting at the same time. That’s what makes depression and anxiety so hard. It isn’t simple.
My metaphor against this thinking comes from my front yard. I have old Maple tree smack dab in the middle of the lawn. In summer when the sun shines on my front yard, both light and dark appear at the same time, side by side together. The dark from the shadow of the tree, that is cast by the good and virtuous sunlight. The light also from the same glorious, life giving, energy producing sun shine. There they are a natural unfulfillment of the idea that light and dark cannot exist at the same time in the same place.
My final thought, and then I promise to get off my soap box, The Holocaust. Multiple are the stories and accounts of light and dark existing at the same time in the same place. Schindler’s list, The Hiding Place, Viktor Frankl, Jacques Lusseyran. The can, they do, they have done.
They exist so that we may choose, that we may grow, that we may ask ourselves mature questions and develop character.
Okay – that’s all.
I love your thoughts on this!!! Have you read Debbie Fords book “Dark Side of the LIght Chasers”. She talks about embracing every part of ourselves, including the dark side. We all have them. “What you can’t be with, won’t let you be.” The things you deny about yourself will keep popping-up in your life, until you finally understand and accept them. Another quote I love is “The world is a mirror of our internal selves. When we can accept ourselves, we automatically accept and forgive others.”
I love the analogy of your tree.
SomeUsername84 wrote:. So, you can imagine the disillusionment, betrayal, and fear she felt when I began telling her that I had concerns about the church (which I didn’t have when we got married). Right now she is about six months pregnant, and I am committed to my wife and son-to-be. This is one of the most heart-wrenching things I have ever been through.
…..
My wife and I are used to going to the temple every other week. And, I feel like although it may not be entirely inspired, the ordinances there provide good reminders of the type of man I try to be and the importance of a Savior.
I want to keep going and to wearing the temple garment for those reasons, but I don’t know if I should (or am even allowed to). And, I want to bless my son when he is born in a few months, but, I don’t know if I will be allowed. These things make me very sad.
My heart aches for you because I feel the same “guilt” regarding the “
betrayal, and fear she felt when I began telling her that I had concerns about the church (which I didn’t have when we got married)” and I have been married for 15 years. It does get easier… some days are harder than others. You sound like a very like a good man who has his heart in the right place. I hope you keep coming back here for support. It has honestly saved me some serious heartache. As far as the temple and taking your garments off… my personal opinion is to hold off on that. I am not sure what the official doctrine is, but I am under the impression that you aren’t required to take them off until instructed by your bishop to do so… excommunication or such?? My brother hasn’t gone to church in 10 years, has admitted to two bishops that he is atheist and believes nothing. They still encouraged him to wear his garments. Unless you hate your garments and don’t want to wear them anymore, that is different. When I found out the the history I was so angry for a week that I was grossed out by the garments and didn’t want them to touch me. Then I decided to see them as something different, the love of God… and it was winter and I don’t mind them nearly as much in the winter…haha The summer might be prove to be difficult again.
i agree with Curtis regarding your concerns, try to keep them to yourself at church and open up only with those you know are “safe”. It will seem to go against every “Mormon” feeling in your body, but I am glad I took that advice in the beginning of my FC. I personally don’t go to the temple anymore due to extreme anxiety I felt last time I went (6 months ago). Causes extreme sadness as it used to be a place of refuge and beauty for me, now all I see is misogyny. (It may have been exaggerated that day in my head, but still…..) I have hope to someday be able to find beauty and refuge again.
I do understand your hurt. My husband told me last week that he is sad that we don’t go to the temple anymore. He said that one of the hardest parts of my FC for him. It nearly broke my heart as he opened up and shared his pain and his heartache with me… made me want to go running back to who I was before and wish I had never “opened my eyes”. But, I can’t. I see the rainbow now and I can’t go back to black and white.
That is beautiful Curtis. I hope to be better at just finding peace with the unexplainable and rebuilding my “faith” in the unseen, unexplainable instead of discounting almost everything.
