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  • in reply to: Why Ordinances for the dead? #120190
    optimusmoose
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    This is my current stance on the topic. I am about 83% confident on this. Since I have not had an open revelation on this, it is completely subject to change, might be complete rubbish, etc. Caveat emptor.

    Baptisms for the dead was a late doctrine. If you read the sections in the D&C on the topic, you get the impression that it was evolving. Had Joseph not been killed, who knows where it would have gone. If you study the D&C, you get into this theme of the fulness of the gospel and the redemption of the dead. You can’t separate those things. They are coupled. The theme in the D&C presents a series of attempts at building Zion. There is a command to gather, a call to go on missions, a command to care for the poor, and a command to build a temple. That’s the packet that occurs over and over. With the failure of Nauvoo (God commanded it to be built within a certain amount of time, and it never was; God promised the fulness to the institution if they finished, and a curse including rejecting their baptisms for the dead if they failed–they failed), the Lord promised that the baptisms would not count anymore. I have yet to see any scriptural or revelatory argument that the Lord’s rejection has been reversed.

    As far as the endowment goes, it is NOT an essential ordinance. The endowment is to exaltation as a temple prep class is to going to the temple. For those who are not able to learn on their own, it can help, but it is not necessary. The endowment represents the progression of an individual to the presence of God. It is not literally the progression of an individual to the presence of God. Both those who are endowed and those who are not will have to make the same changes to their lives in order to qualify to be redeemed from the fall. Does that make sense? It is an aid. It is my belief that Joseph gave the pieces to Brigham because he knew the institution would fail to obtain a fullness (ie establish Zion), and he knew he would be killed, and he wanted them to have something that would lead the truth seeker to the Lord, like breadcrumbs. It has been mutilated and modified from it’s original (and still imperfect) form. It’s still worthwhile to experience, but I don’t see why anyone would consider selling their house to pay for the trip or any other comparable level of sacrifice. It is not the end, but a means to the end.

    As far as other ordinances for the dead, NONE were performed during Joseph’s life. I am convinced that they were instituted without revelation, and not binding in any way. Denver Snuffer makes an argument of why the sealing power as we speak of it ceased to be in operation among church leaders after Joseph’s death. I don’t agree with him 100%, but I have done my own study and come to the same conclusion.

    Here is my current understanding of how the dead are to be redeemed, based on what I have read and felt:

    The individual is meant to follow the Holy Ghost until they are redeemed from the fall and given the sealing power from God himself. They are then sealed up to eternal life, and they can then seal their descendants and ancestors to themselves, then seal themselves to the closest dispensation head. If you research this for yourself, I will believe you will come to the same conclusion. No endowments, no temple sealers, etc.

    Here are some bread crumbs to lead you along: Read D&C 132. You will see that a “real” sealing is immediate and permanent provided there is no murder committed. Now go to a sealing, and listen to the words. THEY ARE CONDITIONAL. You aren’t really sealed by the sealer. He just says, in effect, “if you continue to be righteous, someday you will be sealed.” It would appear that the only way to really get sealed today is directly from God. (Also note that in 132 it is clear that only one man can hold the authority to “really” seal at a time in all the world. IF President Monson has that authority, to follow what it says here and the evidence of how Joseph did it, he would either have to seal everyone personally or else authorize each individual ordinance, requiring an intimate knowledge of the worthiness of each candidate. You can study about that. Joseph knew each person very very well. You would have to to seal people permanently).

    I hope that doesn’t open up an ugly can of worms for anyone. I am a faithful follower of Jesus Christ. Learning these things has not booted me from the church, I am still active. Learning them has, however, strengthened my dependence on Christ and helped me to abandon trusting in the arm of flesh. God is still intimately involved in the salvation of his children, and he has not abrogated that to a man or some group of men. Jesus Christ is the only one that can save you, he employs no servant at the gate to heaven.

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