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I appreciate the thoughts you all have shared. I glossed over a lot of details in my OP, we have already done a lot of what has been suggested here. I responded with a polite but blunt 4 line email to both SP and BP informing them that our position wasn’t changing and then clearly telling them there would be NO private interviews with our kids.
I expect we will be ignored and treated like outcasts from here on out. I’m totally fine with it, but it is hard on my wife and kids. I do not fit the StayLDS mindset anymore, but GodisLove still does and this has been emotionally very difficult for her.
This experience was a catalyst for us to sit down with the kids and openly share my disaffection/unbelief and to let them know that our family is still good, strong, and united despite this new position that I have grown into. I believe this black cloud had a silver lining afterall this discussion was several years in the making and it feels good to finally have it all out in the open with my kids.
He has a very strong authority complex and I don’t think he likes anyone questioning that. I don’t really care or recognize his authority, which doesn’t help. I believe he would stick to teaching and asking strength of the youth definitions of chastity, trouble is I disagree with a big portion of them and don’t think he should get to decide what my children are taught. This very thing was extremely damaging to me as a teen and I have been permanently affected by this BS perpetuated by the church negatively.
Why isn’t asking the temple recommend question just as asked to adults good enough for him? It is baffling to me, but it isn’t good enough for him.
Curtis, I agree it is nice to have those kinds of statements to use as support for something other than belief in the traditional literal truth position that is predominant in the church.
Curtis wrote:Thus, Elder Holland can say, rightly, that the apostles won’t ask someone to leave the Church if that person can’t take the Book of Mormon as literal history – that they can accept any form of good that someone can take from it and remain in the Church. If you look at the actual quote, he doesn’t even require someone to accept the “word of God” description.
Go reread his 2009 Safety For The Soul conference address, that talk makes a very very different statement about the BOM than the one you are quoting from him. I am not suggesting that he advocates anyone leave the church, but he absolutely doubles down on the fact that the BOM came about in the exact way JS said and is what JS claimed it to be.
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2009/10/safety-for-the-soul?lang=eng I hear what you are saying Curtis, but your position is not the position the church teaches or advocates, IMO.
We believe the BOM to be the Word of God… That is a BIG issue for me now that I believe differently. The magic is gone out of it for me. Maybe I’m still too angry to try to find or see the value. The church holds everything about it out as coming directly from God, until caught in the lie, then they alter it to someone “speaking as a man” including the very keystone of the religion. For me the fact that the scriptures don’t live up to their literal truth claims seriously devalues them and the organization that promotes them as something they are not. NewLight wrote:“faith crisis” last year. I hate that term – it makes me feel too much of a victim. Maybe “faith refinement” is better even if it doesn’t quite capture the anguish that so many of us feel going through it.
I’m glad you are here. I think you’ll find this a great place to share and learn from. Thanks for sharing your story, I like reading them.
I feel the same way about the “faith crisis” lingo. In some ways it is accurate, but really doesn’t capture it well. I see my own experience as more of an awakening. I couldn’t go back to how I was before even if I wanted too (I don’t). I have changed and grown. I’m different now, the crisis part ended the day I got on the same page with my wife with this stuff.
Daeruin wrote:But she has surprised me at every turn and made me realize how grateful I am for her, and how badly I have underestimated her at times. She’s definitely the woman for me. We still have our troubles, but I feel like our marriage is stronger and more intimate now than it has ever been. We are more open and accepting of each other. And I don’t think we would be in this awesome new place if it weren’t for StayLDS and all of your support and wonderful help. Thank you all so much.
I’m so happy for you Daeruin, thanks for sharing. StayLDS was a godsend for me as well. I think it is wonderful that you share your success with everyone, I for one know that it does help people who are struggling to hear a story with positive outcomes.
Curtis wrote:I but I still don’t think this lawsuit is a legitimate way to address those mistakes – especially given the 7 points in it.
In what other way would the church ever fully address these things? Even the new essays addressing doctrinal concerns, although a step in the right direction, stop well short of the whole truth. It seems to me that without this kind of external pressure the church would be content to continue to operate in the same way they have for the past 180 or so years, obfuscating and misdirecting people about significant things that WOULD matter to their membership and potential converts.
This lawsuit is going to cause me and my family grief for certain. In a way this new grief is really just an extension to the grief caused by the way the church has misled and manipulated me and others their entire lives. The church is in a hard place, but I think it is of its own making for the way they have handled, or not handled, these things in the past. They could have cleaned this up at anytime, but they chose not too, just like they didn’t fix the racial ban or polygamy until they were forced to by outside pressure. Shouldn’t the “only true and living” church led by the only guy authorized to receive revelation for the entire world be expected to do better?
As I’m sure you have gathered from reading this forum, there are many people who can relate almost exactly to your situation and have your same concerns. Reading this board got me past some hard days. If you haven’t read Jeff Burton’s “For Those Who Wonder” I’d highly recommend it. It is available free on the internet. It is kind of aimed at helping a believing spouse or other person understand what a Faith Crisis really is all about. I shared it with my wife early I our discussions about my new beliefs and it was very helpful. I really hope something positive comes of this, Cwald is right there is going to be a lot of pain for people like me as a result of this. People who feel like me are so outnumbered and isolated in this area it is very easy for the obedient masses to dismiss us as broken, angry, or offended and this will just encourage that crap. At least in the short term this is not going to make my life easier. I wonder if this is how it went down with early church apostates like Thomas Marsh and William Law. Maybe we will end up with a great new “milk strippings” story to poke fun of when this is all said and done.
T, I’m with Curtis you laid it out there beautifully and I think they’ll get the message.
However, If this were my letter I wouldn’t be asking for release, I’d be informing that I was done with the callings and I wouldn’t be asking for permission, or favors, or explaining myself. YOU are in charge of what you do, not them. My letter would be one short paragraph long and it would likely offend someone. Your way is probably better.
I feel for you, hard situation That I can’t completely fathom. You are apparently a nicer person than me as well.
Good Luck
I had a similar experience with DW, she’s a great, strong, and tolerant woman. I admire how she has been an ezer kenegdo to me throughout the FC process. Sorry Nibbler, You have a bigger vocabulary than me, What is an ezer kenegdo?
Ok, I looked it up myself, Beautiful Hebrew language for woman being a helpmate or equal partner for a man.
Thanks for the note too.
Curtis, thanks for the PM I saw it after I edited this post the first time.
