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I enjoy freedom from linear thinking. I see rich symbolism everywhere, I have no idea how the literal/concrete realities of life coincide with spiritual truths; my preference is not to mingle them. I (metaphorically) stand on the term “God is Love.” To me that means God’s love is love, we can only experience it because of, or through His grace. That makes the love of God universal and individual at the same time. Every small detail can be credited to God, as well as the claim that he is for the most part “hands off.”
I know how senseless this all sounds, but it is my truth. It doesn’t easily conform to words.
Old-Timer wrote:Our scriptures record almost no physical visitations to anyone – at least, almost none that are written clearly as physical visitations.
My reading of the scriptures says that seeing God with Physical/mortal eyes is basically impossible. One must be “quickened by the spirit” or see with “spiritual eyes”. It is a spiritual event, physical photoreceptors will be of no use.
I can only share thoughts that come to mind. Focus on Love, that strategy rarely goes wrong.
If you lose your life (with the above in mind) you may find it.
The first will be last. (what will our instincts have us place first?)
Love is divine.
Jesus taught us to love even our “enemies”, is the mother of your children worth more?
Surrender to love, our lives are not what we wish them to be – but they can be much more.
Don’t act to make a point,
besomething deeper. Yes, I have similar thoughts about those miracle shows, I’m not a fan. I think of “casting pearls before swine” I don’t think those experiences should be dramatized and presented to the world because it then becomes a “proof” or a club to be used on unbelievers. Heber13 wrote:ITheir concern is that they know it has affected the testimonies of some people in their congregations who have come to them to talk about it because of your posts, and the things you may say in class.
I see this comment as the one that requires the time and effort.
Quote:Why can my words affect the testimonies of others?
Are testimonies some flimsy thing that is easily blown about on any wind? If a testimony is something that is truly experienced and personally known, or is it a house of cards? I know some of the comments we hear do make it seem weak: “If it’s not constantly growing stronger it’s getting weaker.” This idea doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. If I am a witness in court is my testimony going to change based on what other people say?
On one hand I could imagine a situation where a number of other witnesses all testify seeing something that is slightly different from what I saw, that may cause me to rethink what I saw. But for the most part I would be confident and unchanging in my witness once I sat down and decided on what I actually saw.
If I was in that situation of being told to stop I may be too tempted to draw a parallel of how the desire to snuff/silence other perspectives is like using band-aids on chicken pox, expecting the ointment and cover to slow the illness.
amateurparent wrote:I would love to see your list of what benefits the LDS church gives me over non-denominational Christianity.
I cannot make a list for you, I can only make one for me:
1) I have relationships here that I will never have anywhere else. It is the spiritual home of all my family and friends.
2) I appreciate the unique teachings that I see as more expansive than most Christian theology.
3) The difficult path requires me to become stronger than an easy path would.
4) The deeper the problems go the more meaningful the solutions become.
Thanks for this Ann, I needed it today. Excellent thoughts Nibbler.
I am saddened by expressions that appear to be “stuck” on the strictly literal black/white view. In my view it ends up destroying relationships and losing the value that can be found in church. I do agree that our church culture promotes an all-or-nothing literal and black/white view, as well as other misconceptions; but in my mind when cracks start to develop in the absolute trust – the all or nothing expressions should be the first out the window. Personal authority should be the first thing claimed.
Always Thinking wrote:I was thinking of doing it, but am too afraid to give them my name and everything. I wish it was anonymous since I don’t know the SLT enough to trust them with details of my faith crisis AND my name
My name: John Doe
I hope they appreciate the answers from a person they can’t track down.
You are right that thoughts or ideas outside the box are stifled. I don’t know if this will be helpful but on a much simpler scale imagine a group of young kids in a class that are excited about Santa coming. If a couple have discovered the “truth” about Santa and they want to “ruin” the experience of all the other kids in the class. In some situations it makes sense to not force people beyond their present paradigm. It is true in that case that all the kids are not free to share their personal views on the topic, the magical experience for most is the goal. A teacher may say “some people don’t believe in Santa, isn’t that sad” and in other ways demonize the experience of the few that is not in harmony with the goals of the norm.
Yes this analogy falls short, it assumes teachers know something they are not sharing.
Regarding “if your inspiration is contrary to what the leaders teach…” to me it sounds like something they have to say. People crave that type of clear distinction, if it’s not given to them the whole experience falls apart.
Yes it’s messy, ‘real life’ is messy. It also has incredible potential for personal growth.
What is adulthood from the church’s perspective? Fuzzy and largely irrelevant. I see the important question as “what is adulthood from God’s perspective” or even “what is my personal potential?” It will be different from my brothers, as will my path.
I can see both sides of the argument. Going slow does smooth situations, makes life more pleasant, allows others to journey at their own pace. Not slow accelerates the learning curve and may serve as a personal pressure relief valve, but may leave a wake of destruction.
Sheldon wrote:You have based some very important aspects of your life on that fact that you could come up with the missing pieces, and now you find out it is all wrong. Big problem for you, and everybody that believed in your puzzle interpretations!
If the goal was to build a mechanical device that was designed for a specific purpose I would agree. I don’t see the purpose of our personal lives in that same light. In fact such a pre-determined life goes against practically everything that I believe. Agency and experience are the primary reasons for our human condition. I love the idea of mosaics, it fits perfectly. Thanks for that Roy.
Rob4Hope wrote:It is maddening because the rigidity of principle and “doctrine” (whatever that is) seem so ethereal and unfixed.
Yes. Welcome to life outside the garden.
Quote:I struggle mostly with GA statements that “if you do this or that…you are going to hell” type of thing. So, they say…but what is hell, and how can they fortune tell when they themselves don’t even agree with each other?
We all speak from our own experience and understanding. It can be a major switch to see prominent leaders as fellow travelers, men that are asked to lead, but we all access the divine in the same way – therefore we must trust our own heart first as we listen to the counsel of others.
Quote:Never in my entire life would I have considered that I have to literally make my own decisions about what I consider light and dark, right and wrong, good and bad. When the standards are not fixed, it becomes so twisted and frustrating.
When I was a child I thought as a child, when I became a man I had to put away childish things and take fate into my own hands. Moving out of the early childhood stage is one adjustment (santa, tooth fairy); moving into full adulthood is another, more challenging adjustment.
Quote:There is a single concept ONLY that seems fixed,…and that is the concept of love. Something inside of me knows what love is: it is foundational and fundamental to who I am as a person. And, love makes choices more clear, as well as deciding what may or may not be right or wrong.
To me that sounds like God is speaking to you. Love is the key, the answer, “the means and the end” (pres. Uchtdorf) To me God is love, more literally now than ever. Cling to love and ask yourself the questions “am I apathetic on love?” If I constantly try to cultivate love and grow in my capacity to love where does that take me? Moroni 7 says charity is the greatest of all and whosoever is found with it at the last day will be in good shape.
Don’t be apathetic or agnostic on love, that is all I worry about; and I find as my capacity to love increases baby step by baby step, I am able to place all the other challenges in context. There is one question I often hold active in my mind as I sit through church meetings, I don’t often share it but you may find it helpful. It helps me find new connections and new hope. “Is the power of love the power of God?” If so what would that mean, what forms would it take, what bread crumbs would it leave? Have you seen Interstellar?
We often want to ask “if our purpose is to move into full adulthood why is it so fully discouraged in church?”
I think the best answer is “why were Adam and Eve commanded to not partake of the tree of knowledge?”
Rob4Hope wrote:
Understood…opposition in all things, so ignorance must exist as well.Yes. One byproduct of the faith journey for me is I have found deeper meaning in so many of our common teachings. Some books like “Crucible of Doubt” and podcasts like “Mormon Matters” have helped bring them out for me.
From one angle I could say no I don’t believe God actively plays with the outcome of any situation. Sometimes I just want to say humans have been deeply superstitious from the beginning of time and that has morphed into the present idea that God helps find lost car keys, sends rain when saints faithfully ask for it, and heals when faith is demonstrated. On the other hand I try to remain humble about what I know and what I don’t understand. I feel we all share a deep connection, and I don’t know how deep or powerful that connection is. At some level I do believe faith heals, I think there is some evidence for it. Physicians know a positive attitude increases healing. Prayer may clear our minds enough to allow the memory (or sub conscious?) to remember where the keys are.
What it comes down to for me is the concept of “how” God works, even what is the true nature of God. I just let the little things go. When people share their “faith promoting” stories of God intervening in miraculous ways, I don’t get emotionally involved. I don’t need to challenge their personal experience. If they try to “force” it on me as proof of something I smile and let it fall as water on a duck’s back. The real problem in that situation is the other person’s fear, not my own experience.
