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Thanks for all the great responses. I figured this was the right group. I do feel there is value in all the non-temple activities of the church, and that was what I needed to hear. There is a good chance that someone else in that class feels the same way that I do, but doesn’t say anything out of respect for those around us. Online forums give us a chance to express thoughts that aren’t expressed in church. Sometimes I think I should speak up, in a respectful way, to help support other members that might feel outside the norm. But I really dislike when classes become contentious. I make a choice to be there and I don’t want to cause doubt in others. I do feel there has been an increased emphasis on temple service since the increase in temple building. DH tells me that I am wrong, that I am just more sensitive to the topic. That could be true. My mother and I are the only members in my family. We joined in 1972 (yes mom3, I remember 1972) on the East Coast. The Washington DC temple wasn’t dedicated until 1974. So having no endowed relatives, and a temple 2 hours away, it wasn’t prevalent in my young personal life. My husband’s family is LDS from BY’s time, some even descend from him. Temple attendance is huge in their lives.
Before we had children we went to the temple once a week. I get why people love the temple and I am happy for them. I am also very grateful that my current ward is open, understanding. I am able to take home a gospel message from each class I attend.
I do feel that most of what is good about me is due to being raised in the Church. Any of what is bad in me is solely due to me. I will always be grateful to the members the Ward of my youth for making me who I am.
I am sorry you are going through this. It is very hard to want to attend church when bad feelings exist. We should be going to church to uplift ourselves and others, and if that is not happening what is the point? But please DO NOT stop going because of other people. If this church brings you happiness, and you believe in the teachings don’t let other people stand in your way. Your salvation, happiness and desire to worship belong to you and never let anyone take that away from you. If you want to attend a different ward then do so. Leadership can pressure you to return to your own ward, but they cannot make you. If you attend a ward outside of your boundaries, you cannot hold a calling, you are assigned HT and VT within your home ward, and you pay tithing through your home BP. Depending on how cool your adopted ward leadership is, you can substitute in a calling….every week if they need you. Let’s see….volunteer to sub primary whenever they need one, let the RS know you would be willing to take dinner to someone, show up at service projects, sign up to clean the building, let the sisters know that you would be willing to tag along on VT if their companions can’t make it. I think you would be plenty involved if you want to be.
Never, ever let other people bully you out of your place in the church. It is yours if you want it, and you deserve it.
Also, when the announcement first came out that members were going to be cleaning the buildings I thought it was a good idea. I think it helps people gain more respect for the building and its care. I read a lot of people saying that their buildings are not as clean. I have not found that to be the case in our building. Our building is only about 10 years old, and so is easier to clean. In my ward, they send around a sign up sheet in PH and RS. Honestly, the same 4 or 5 families seem to volunteer. We are one of them. It seems to be the retired couples, or couples that do not have small children at home. In other words…it is a self selected group, whose family dynamics make cleaning the building on a Sat. morning doable.
It is actually kind of fun to visit with the other members in a relaxed atmosphere, not having to sit in a lesson or a meeting. We get done in under an hour if everyone shows. The brother that is in charge assigns himself the toilet cleaning….so no one ever complains about their job to him
🙄 That being said, I do think the church should employ janitors. In my ward, the same families that clean now would still be willing to help with weekly touch up in addition to a paid janitor.
It actually did have a good effect….but it took 10 years. My son, now 25, had been working for his company for a year on a part time basis. He wanted full time as he wanted to marry his girlfriend and didn’t feel he could do that without steady employment. DS found another job, offering more money and full time. He went to his boss, and told the boss that he would be leaving unless they could give him full time, although he would be willing to continue at his current wage. The boss responds “well, you know we aren’t offering any full time positions right now….” silence, silence…..the boss says “I’ll see what I can do.” Next week DS is on full time.
DS is relating this story to DH and me, and thanks DH for teaching him the silence method. I say….”you know, you really learned that from the BP….so don’t tell me you never learned anything at church.” My son says. “going to church all those years never really hurt me.”
I almost fell on the floor. Prior to that, DS expressed that every ill that had ever come his way was because we made him go to church. Then he even went on to say that when he has kids, he might take them to church, and if he is going to church he might as well go to the LDS church.
If he does go back to church, I think he will not accept callings unless he is actually willing to do the work involved. So, in the short term the method was not successful. But in the long term it taught DS say what he will do, and then to do what he says.
He made the goal to be the most ineffective TQP there ever had been in that ward. And he accomplished that goal very well. I’ve been out to my BP for a couple years and have not really had any problem so far. I participate at whatever level I care to, and no one says anything. I am a woman though, and don’t have the priesthood responsibilities hanging over me. My husband runs interference for me too, although I always tell him I am a big girl and can talk for myself. I think what works for me is that I still have a 13 year-old daughter, and they don’t want to push me and have me leave altogether, and take DD with me. So I have that. And my family of origin is not LDS so no pressure there.
My other daughter, however, is getting married in November in the temple. I will not be able to attend the sealing, but we are planning a ring ceremony in a beautiful setting afterwards. Some people maintain a TR for those types of reasons. I tried to do that for 2 years and then could not answer the TR questions. Well, I can answer them, but I’m not going to get a TR. I don’t feel that I am not “worthy”, I live my personal life just as I did before, but I feel a need to be honest about my beliefs.
My daughters wedding is not going to be easy, and anybody thinking about “outing” themselves needs to think seriously about these things. For me, I know that Her wedding is about Her. It is her day to begin her new life with her new partner. The wedding is about how They are choosing to share their lives and the goals they have for themselves. It is about their shared testimonies. DD will be the leading lady in her life, and I but a supporting character. Making the day about her, and leaving any self pity I may have out of it, is the first act of my new role.
Sorry to go on and on. I am not trying to make this about me….I am just trying to illustrate that, as you know, there is a lot to consider in your decision. For me, I gained a more honest relationship with the church, my DH, my children and myself. But I gave up a lot too. I did not gain a more honest relationship with God….He already knew…but I spend more time pondering God now.
Waiting for an answer is also a tool of negotiation. A really good tool. When my son was 15, the BP called him to be president of the Teacher’s quorum. My son did not want to be president in any way. He didn’t even want to be there, let alone lead. So he said to the BP that he didn’t want to do it. The BP replied that he understood, and that he too, didn’t want to do a lot of things that he did. Then the BP just sat there looking at my son in silence. My son tried to resist, but in the end he could not take the silence and said that he would do it.
DS comes home and tells us about it. My DH laughs and tells my son that he just learned a lesson ….he who breaks the silence first loses.
The BP didn’t have to verbally pressure, persuade or lecture on responsibility. He just sat and waited for an answer. Now, as an adult my son has used this tool of waiting for an answer to his advantage.
Ray, I am sorry for your loss. This is a difficult time for anyone.
Please allow your dad to make his own decision on eating and drinking. When the body is letting go it “knows” what it needs. If the body does not need the nutrition, it can cause swelling in tissues and discomfort to the person. As a hospice nurse, I have watched families plead and beg their loved one to continue to eat. They do this out of love, not knowing that this could actually cause more discomfort. Don’t withhold anything, just offer and let it end at that. If he wants cake instead of his meds…..then let him have it….he has earned the right to do that
:thumbup: My advice to the families I have been with at this time is always this: sit with your dad and tell him stories of your childhood. Only the good stories. Tell him what you learned from him and how you have passed that on to your children and your grandchildren. I can’t imagine a better way to go than to hear the sweet sound of your children retelling precious memories.
Cadence wrote:
Personally I think the best you can do is wager that there is a god and just do your best to be a good person. Leave the specifics of different religions out of the equation.Yes. This. I couldn’t say it any better.
Ann….exactly….to all.
wayfarer wrote:
If, on the other hand, I had a child who took full responsibility for his or her actions, did her level best to make the best out of the world s/he lived in, and cared for neighbor, what would I care what s/he thought of me? Expecially if every description of me is robed in abstraction so vague I cannot be recognized?When my son left the church, I got many statements of sorrow from fellow members. Some were sincere, and some were offensive. Wayfarer’s thought above was pretty much my response to the critics. I continue to advise my son to be a good person, and care for others.
I am so glad I read this thread today.
I shouldn’t be laughing, but I am. In my last 3 wards, seating arrangements have been sacred. It is usually the older people though, so no fist fights have broken out. I did sit in one sister’s sacred seat once, and she muttered through the entire SM about how I was sitting in her seat. I wanted to turn and say, “I heard you! I will never sit here again!” My DH, on the other hand, tried to sit in that seat for several weeks later… but I wouldn’t let him. Shawn, Loved the balance in your posts today. It seems as if you are gaining a grip on your faith crisis. I am happy for you.
Hey, sorry, I realize that I thread jacked there and made it about me and it should be about you. The point I meant to make to make this a learning experience for yourself. In any ward you are in from now on, you will know that there will be someone who is going through what you are going through today. What would you like to see happen for you right now? Would you like your current ward members to be more accepting, loving, kind? Then in the future you can be the person that is accepting, loving, kind.
Sometimes there seems to be no good answer as to why we go through our trials. I can’t pretend to know why bad things happen. But I believe that sometimes the Lord gives us the trial that teaches us exactly what we need, so we can help others.
People in your ward are a very big part of the church experience. Fellowship is the reason we meet together isn’t it? We could all just study the scriptures at home, but we meet together to teach each other. When you attend another ward, you find out quickly who was your friend and who was not. Women that I had VT, and had VT me would see me at the store and quickly look away and avoid me. Not all, just some. I can’t blame them. I used to be them. I hated to be assigned to VT an inactive/less active because it was uncomfortable and I would avoid them if I could. Not to be mean, I just didn’t know what to say or do. But now on the other side I can see how painful it is.
Now, I have learned what to do when you cross paths with someone outside of the “norm”. You say “Hi.” Like you know them. That’s all… it isn’t hard.
So being that I am guilty of the avoiding behavior as well, I have decided to change that. I was in Costco and one of my former ward members avoided me as she has done many times in the last five years. Instead of being insulted, I pushed my cart down the isle, stepped up to her and said “Hi Mary. How are you? How are your daughters?” And then I finished my shopping. Gosh, and I lived.
In my case, I just can’t go back to that ward. Unfortunately, my husband had an affair with a woman in that ward. She was the primary chorister, and I was in nursery so every week we sat and sang primary songs together. It was very hard as I began to suspect the betrayal. I stayed in the ward for two weeks after learning for sure. In SM I would give her dirty looks and she would smile back at me. Very immature on both of our parts. Children were involved and for their well being, one of us had to leave. There was no healing, no learning the gospel going on. The BP was glad to have me leave, as he didn’t want the ward members to know what had happened and I (by giving dirty looks) was making that increasingly hard to contain.
My husband and I have worked things out. We continue to work on our marriage. As a family we are stronger. Policy will never trump family for me. Yes, we need to focus on Christ, but there has to be an environment that allows for that.
We tend to focus on the “don’ts” of the WOW. There are a lot of “dos” in there to talk about. I like the part about eating fruit in season. I will reach for a can of pears during the summer and have to remind myself to each a fresh pear instead. The canned pears taste so good because they are canned in sugar water – yum – but fresh, in season fruit is so much better for you.
