[Poppyseed]

Thank you Hi Jolley.

The continuum idea is very familiar to me as I think that same way. It is most certainly consistent with most of my experience.

I think that I am wondering about the idea of stewardship. Does it work like the stewardship I give to my 8 year old to do the dishes? And is the church much like my kitchen….with the dishes almost getting put where they belong but with the occasional cup in the linen closet and fork in the microwave?

When Jesus gives the charge to a human to “start a church” or some other such command along the way, does He in fact hand over the stewardship/responsibility ( meaning that they kind of run it as they see fit…..but that would also mean they have to clean up the messes they make too… hmmm. Do the prophets do that?) and then interfere as that individual desires? I guess I find myself confused a bit. For example: Joseph learns of polygamy and doesn’t teach it for a time because of fear or personal reservation. An angel comes with a sword and literally threatens the man to obey. This = BIG INFLUENCE from Jesus. Then there is all these Brigham Young comments on race and the Adam/God theory etc. that everyone is bent over and that frankly I don’t think the church knows what to do with. Where was Jesus then? Why not an angel with a sword telling Brigham to love all man kind and to correct the churches perception of things back in 1847? Or was there an angel and Brigham was too bull headed to open the door to him? Or was it just not time? (how many times have I heard that one.)

You see what I am getting at? God seems to have allowed some agency….and some blunders but not others. Hmmm. This does and doesn’t make sense with me. If the way the brethren receive revelation is much the way we do and if these men are in fact more righteous than the average bear and more in tune as a result and still human and prone to human error too, then I can assume that the Spirit would correct them as it corrects me. Or I can assume the the Spirit would ebb away or shine more light according to obedience as it does with me. Why would God force the issue (polygamy) on something that would surely bring scorn and rejection to the church and heartache and concern to so many thru the course of time and then not correct the saints views on other doctrines that have come from BY and influenced a centuries worth of people only to be discarded slowly and quietly? I mean, why wasn’t there some sort of doctrinal alarm system if in fact restoring the truth about doctrine and things was at the core of this whole mormon effort?

ANd with regards to polygamy: It changes everything for me meaning that it changes my view of God and his nature…..it makes me question my worth as a woman and what it means to be a man….. and it hampers my trust in God ( compartmentally, if you can understand that) and certainly my trust in Joseph Smith. I am greatful that at least we are taught that the practice is only conditionally righteous meaning that it is only for the purpose of “raising up seed” unto the Lord. This seems to put some viable understanding in place, but wouldn’t make it any easier to live considering all the “temptations” on our men these days to act sexually irresponsible while calling it “normal”.

And I suppose if this command didn’t end up coming from God, that at least the church did course correct at some point even if it was only to stop the persecutions from the government. I am glad they did! I certainly wouldn’t be a mormon if the practice still existed. ( just as a side note….I watched that Oprah interview with the Tx. polygamist women and I found so many things about that lifestyle disturbing, and not just the sexual aspects.) As it seems to have course corrected with regards to race…and the proper way to perform sealings etc etc. I mean, did the church need time to grow into these more accurate ways of worshipping? And if so, why? I mean we were ahead of the curve with regards to the WofW……why couldn’t we be ahead of the curve with regards to race?

BTW….this isn’t all that I feel. Just one side of it.

[Poppyseed]

victoria wrote:

I’ve come to the conclusion, that we really are tested to the limits to see if we will really forgive and not judge a living soul even bishops who mess up. I have learned to go to church with a glad heart and see who I can help. Every single person has hard things they are going through – I go to church and no one knows what heartache I have – but I can forget it and listen and help someone through their pain. Once I thought I couldn’t go to church ever again because the heartache was so bad that I would cry constantly, but my husband encouraged me to go and the Lord blessed me, the talks were just what I needed to hear and I felt love from all the imperfect people. Love to you!

Thanks for this, Victoria. I have felt similar things.

[Poppyseed]

Hello.

I understand a little of the frustration you feel with priesthood. Going to the bishop for anything isn’t my favorite activity. I honestly wonder sometimes if the leaders are so worried about administering correctly, that they forget that there is real person sitting in front of them. A real person who is risking so much to tell the truth and who really do need a soft spiritually rich place to fall for a moment. Maybe the bishops are just people too. Maybe you were the first real confession this bishop had to deal with. Or maybe this bishop had no interpersonal skills and he was sending prayer thoughts up to God about his own insecurities. Or maybe he was just a poop. I can’t really know. But maybe it was an opportunity for you to deal with another very imperfect human in order to move closer to the repentance you so badly needed. Or maybe it was your challenge to humble yourself to the less than comfortable parts of the process.

I wonder if it might help to view the bishop and the disciplinary process as a tool. I mean, aren’t we all really the captains of our own repentance process? Don’t we control how our hearts react as we choose to change? The real comfort….the real reconcilliation happens in the quietness of your heart as it communicates with Father in Heaven. I think you know that. If the bishop is lucky enough to be open to that, then great! But, your commitment to the church and your retaining of your testimony in terms of your journey to sanctification and peace should happen independent of what the church does or how the church fumbles over itself. Maybe Father lets all of it happen this way because each time it is a learning experience for everyone involved. I often think of Moroni out there all alone. The real church wasn’t to be found around him. It was woven into his heart. And I have needed to learn how to stand and work inside the church process, but to have the real gospel woven independently into my heart too.

I don’t know what the answers are for you now. It appears you did feel the power of forgiveness and the influence of the Lord in your life. Don’t let bishops stop your progress. Ask Father in Heaven how you should view them or use them for a wise purpose. And then get back to the business of moving on. These events are over. They don’t define you anymore. Hopefully, they have taught you to be a better person and to choose more wisely. And I think maybe you do have to do the following up and communicating to the leaders about what is working for you and what isn’t. Maybe the bishops need to you to explain your needs and why you feel frustrated and then both of you can learn and struggle together to the desired ends.

[Poppyseed]

Mental illness is one of those areas that I don’t think many in this world understand. I think that is why the church started LDSSS because bishops, SP’s, and RS don’t have the understanding or credentials to handle this fully, yet they know that help is needed. I don’t know how many times I have had to remind myself (in my own situation) that bishop’s are not therapists. And I don’t know exactly where my expectations should lie with regards to the church and these issues. There are parts to our problems that people can help with and other parts we just have to carry alone. Certainly talking to someone who is properly informed is better than trying to explain to the ignorant. And sometimes when people don’t understand, they can be painful. My own situation is something that no very many people tolerate well. That is a sad truth to me some days, but I have decided that it is ok.

Maybe it is people like you that have been thru the mental illness wilderness to help the rest of us “get it”. Maybe you are the one who is appointed to come back and expand the rest of us who will certainly protest or avoid the lesson. I don’t know.

What I do know is that peace has come to me from the inside out. Not the other way around. It is how I think and react and evaluate myself, my situation, and others that determines my level of acceptance and peace. I don’t need the acceptance of others to feel ok anymore — well at least that is my goal. And now, I can greet someones misunderstanding with love and maybe even a little education to help them love too.

I think people put our names in the temple because they simply don’t know what else to do, but they do want to do something. It is the default setting for many of us. My mother did the same thing, bless her heart. But it really was all the capacity she had to give. SO, I decided to accept the gesture anyway even though it felt like a copout some days. The love sent was something even if it wasn’t everything.

Just know you aren’t alone. Maybe we need more support groups so that we know we aren’t alone. And people can think what they want, but it doesn’t make it all true. We are GOOD, no matter what burden it is that we have to carry. Burdens don’t define us! I refuse to believe that. Maybe this next generation will be filled with more understanding, tolerance, and capacity for loving those who don’t fall into the mainstream.

Much love to you.

[Poppyseed]

Hi Wendall. How are you doing today?

I was wondering if you wife knows the difference between when you are talking and when the anxiety is?

I don’t know if my own situation is applicable but my DH had some heavy issues and I had to learn not to listen or to “just observe” when his addiction/narcicistic voice or his dysfunction voice was acting out. It really helped me to be less offended, less reactive, and more supportive as he learned to heal and manage all the parts of him that needed managing. And if he was acting too painfully, then I could detach and let him deal with it while I met my needs.

I hope you can find new ways to manage your burdens…..maybe determine which things aren’t necessary to deal with and then focus on the most important things. Maybe things can move to a more comfortable imperfection.

I don’t like to ask for help either. But my H and I did get a therapist….in fact we shopped around until we found one that worked with us. And then we committed to changing the way we dealt with all of our issues. It took time…..heck, we are still in process. But things are so much better now. We are no longer talking of divorce. In fact, we smile at each other and hold hands.

I guess I share this just to hold out the light of hope. There are better ways to deal….ways that really work. There is healing and new perspectives that take the pressure off. There are people who have been there and who know the way.

Best wishes. My prayer thoughts are with you.

[Poppyseed]

Old-Timer wrote:

The following is a greatly condensed version of something I have shared in a couple of different talks in my life:

There are two dogs inside each of us – a good one and a bad one. They are constantly fighting each other. The one that wins is the one we feed the most – or the best, depending on your focus.

Thank you, Ray. I think you may be right about this. There is something to be said about concentrating on offenses and mistakes and how it tends to magnify the significance of things. Learning to focus properly is a good thing. My father always used to say “as a man thinketh, so is he.” I have thought a lot about that over the years.

I think what I don’t want to do though is live in denial about my concerns. I don’t want to pretend anymore. I don’t want to live in a place where I don’t feel honest and genuine. I don’t do well in any other circumstance. I guess I need a place where I can tell the truth. And if I can look at the truth about my perceptions and square that with the truth about how things really are, then I can place my focus properly.

Thanks for your input.

[Poppyseed]

Thank you, Heber. I will take a look at that book. I think I really need to read something. I don’t really have it in my heart to criticize the brethren. I just want to understand how this revelation thing works. I know Joseph’s revelations usually came after someone asked a question. I think my childhood mentality led me to think that the brethren had some extra access to Jesus……some extra ongoing commmunication with Him that would prevent the church from making key mistakes. I don’t think I understood that making key mistakes is part of growth and that Jesus could still keep the church from going astray AND allow mistakes to be made. Maybe this book will help me fill in the blanks.

Quote:

I think this is a broad, sweeping statement. I think it varies by ward, and I think it starts with you and how much charity you have for others. The more charity I have in my heart, the more charity I see others have.

I must sound incredibly judgmental here. I am sorry. I was hoping rather to sound observant. I don’t really want to sound that way because at the core my real beliefs is the understanding that people are just people and they have all sorts of flaws and limitations and inadequacies and heavy burdens. How badly I want to be better and more than I am only to realize my own lack. I think that this journey of crisis had at least one major objective…..and that was for Father to help me finally learn how to love and extend charity to myself and so I think God let me experience the intense rejection, the loneliness and the unkindness of others. I tried to learn the lesson because I wanted the results. And I have come a long way. But, some of the people I trusted the most….the people I thought were most trusted and refined by God were part of mechanism that caused me so much pain. I honestly felt like it was a Job experience. There wasn’t anyone but God and myself to turn to. After a time, my DH evolved enough to become a support to me. I will say that my therapist was the one ray of hope……but she was only a therapist. She couldn ‘t be my friend or my mother or my sister. I had to pay her to love me. You know?

So my concern is that I wonder why, if this church has the restored core of Jesus Christ’s gospel, why didn’t I see more compassion or understanding or friendship? It would seem to me that the church (here I go with a “should”) or the church people around me, should have been there in some way other than a destructive one. I think at the core my issues aren’t about forgiveness. I have been around the block with all of this and given each person as much human latitude as I can, including myself. But I do feel a great inability to trust mormon people and the leadership that is appointed. Sometimes I think the BofM is the best example of how the church can struggle to love and that the lamanites sometimes do it better. Other times I think that God was just pushing me to learn really important lessons and I needed to feel rejection and betrayal so that I could understand the depth of it. But other times I doubt the reality of the gospel in the first place and think that maybe it was all just a creation of culture. Or that maybe the saints are really good at being industrious and bringing dinners to expectant mothers……but maybe have a ways to go with regards to charity and what it really looks and feels like outside of all the good works.

Quote:

Depending on what you mean by “favorites”, but if in the traditional term He has preference for some of His children over some others, that does not compute to me. There is a pattern of rewarding some people based on their choices, and there is a pattern of choosing certain groups of people for certain responsibilities (whether that has anything to do with behavior in the pre-existence or just random, I don’t think we know)…but choosing one group to be the ones responsible to teach the other children is ok in my book…just one way to do it. Roles and responsibilities aren’t automatically linked to love and importance in God’s eyes, IMO.

Thank you. This REALLY helped.

Quote:

I’d like to understand a little more about what you mean and what you think the purpose of this site is.

I got concerned when I read something about “if you don’t want to go to the temple, then just don’t. Just worship in the ways the work for you.” The cafeteria approach. Something about that just didn’t sit right with me. I agree with everything you said, Heber. I couldn’t have said it better. I am just not sure everyone sees it that way. I guess I would hope people would see it that way. Maybe it has to do with just meeting people where they are at. Just an invitation to help people see outside of the black and white “box”.[/quote]

[Poppyseed]

Thank you, Heber. I will take a look at that book. I think I really need to read something. I don’t really have it in my heart to criticize the brethren. I just want to understand how this revelation thing works. I know Joseph’s revelations usually came after someone asked a question. I think my childhood mentality led me to think that the brethren had some extra access to Jesus……some extra ongoing commmunication with Him that would prevent the church from making key mistakes. I don’t think I understood that making key mistakes is part of growth and that Jesus could still keep the church from going astray AND allow mistakes to be made. Maybe this book will help me fill in the blanks.

Quote:

I think this is a broad, sweeping statement. I think it varies by ward, and I think it starts with you and how much charity you have for others. The more charity I have in my heart, the more charity I see others have.

I must sound incredibly judgmental here. I am sorry. I was hoping rather to sound observant. I don’t really want to sound that way because at the core my real beliefs is the understanding that people are just people and they have all sorts of flaws and limitations and inadequacies and heavy burdens. How badly I want to be better and more than I am only to realize my own lack. I think that this journey of crisis had at least one major objective…..and that was for Father to help me finally learn how to love and extend charity to myself and so I think God let me experience the intense rejection, the loneliness and the unkindness of others. I tried to learn the lesson because I wanted the results. And I have come a long way. But, some of the people I trusted the most….the people I thought were most trusted and refined by God were part of mechanism that caused me so much pain. I honestly felt like it was a Job experience. There wasn’t anyone but God and myself to turn to. After a time, my DH evolved enough to become a support to me. I will say that my therapist was the one ray of hope……but she was only a therapist. She couldn ‘t be my friend or my mother or my sister. I had to pay her to love me. You know?

So my concern is that I wonder why, if this church has the restored core of Jesus Christ’s gospel, why didn’t I see more compassion or understanding or friendship? It would seem to me that the church (here I go with a “should”) or the church people around me, should have been there in some way other than a destructive one. I think at the core my issues aren’t about forgiveness. I have been around the block with all of this and given each person as much human latitude as I can, including myself. But I do feel a great inability to trust mormon people and the leadership that is appointed. Sometimes I think the BofM is the best example of how the church can struggle to love and that the lamanites sometimes do it better. Other times I think that God was just pushing me to learn really important lessons and I needed to feel rejection and betrayal so that I could understand the depth of it. But other times I doubt the reality of the gospel in the first place and think that maybe it was all just a creation of culture. Or that maybe the saints are really good at being industrious and bringing dinners to expectant mothers……but maybe have a ways to go with regards to empathy and real engaged friendship.

Quote:

Depending on what you mean by “favorites”, but if in the traditional term He has preference for some of His children over some others, that does not compute to me. There is a pattern of rewarding some people based on their choices, and there is a pattern of choosing certain groups of people for certain responsibilities (whether that has anything to do with behavior in the pre-existence or just random, I don’t think we know)…but choosing one group to be the ones responsible to teach the other children is ok in my book…just one way to do it. Roles and responsibilities aren’t automatically linked to love and importance in God’s eyes, IMO.

Thank you. This REALLY helped.

Quote:

I’d like to understand a little more about what you mean and what you think the purpose of this site is.

I got concerned when I read something about “if you don’t want to go to the temple, then just don’t. Just worship in the ways the work for you.” The cafeteria approach. Something about that just didn’t sit right with me. I agree with everything you said, Heber. I couldn’t have said it better. I am just not sure everyone sees it that way. I guess I would hope people would see it that way. Maybe it has to do with just meeting people where they are at. Just an invitation to help people see outside of the black and white “box”.

[Poppyseed]

Quote:

Yep, that’s exactly how I felt. Although I was never really mad at God (that I remember anyway), I was hurt. I don’t exaggerate when I saw there was never a time in my life when I needed help more. My mom and my brother dropped everything to fly out and be with me (for which I’ll be eternally grateful), but I couldn’t get any feelings from the Holy Ghost. I hurt me, I didn’t feel close to God, and it really scared me.

I guess I felt betrayed by all the promises made by the church over all the years. I mean, my life was falling apart. I didn’t have anyone fly out to help me, so you are one up on me there. And I was, as you said so well, in more need of Godly help than any other time in my life. So when the rubber really needed to hit the road, I discovered something painfully different. I see differently now, though. I am much more humble (I hope) and much less assuming than I was before. I actually feel like God is requiring more of me with regards to all my “me” issues. Does that make sense?

Quote:

I think this is what I expected. I haven’t yet experienced it. I don’t know if I ever will. I think it has changed my view of how God works and how He allows things to happen. I don’t think He intervenes in my life as much as I previously had faith that He did.

I think I said this a hundred times to my DH in the last year and a half. It really was like I had this big heap of evidence that God wasn’t there and that I was really on my own…..and then I had this glimmering hint of spiritual knowledge too that I couldn’t argue with. It felt like an inner wrestling match…..and I feel like I just have to take it one battle at a time and it seems like it is becoming resolved one little piece at a time. So maybe that advise to go slow and to do so in gratitude for the beauty of today really is the best approach. I think for a long time I panicked and needed it to be all better right then. I think I learned somewhat to be patient with the process. Somehow I don’t feel so patient today. I feel the old pain and fear welling up. And sometimes I feel tired and frustrated. I guess that is part of the journey too. You sound more at peace. It feels good to hear that. I need to get back there and not pretend to have peace when I don’t but really find the peace in circumstances that aren’t solved…..or finished.

[Poppyseed]

Hi Heber. I just found this thread today and I was excited to read your story. You have commented on a few of my posts and I thank you for that.

I was thinking about your descriptions of unanswered prayers and church lessons that don’t touch your soul….let alone interest your intellect. I don’t know if your situation is anything like mine, but I had a long period of time when I didn’t feel God was anywhere close to me. It was a time of intense pain and confusion and loss. It was a series of traumas….little ones maybe to others but big ones to me. And where was God? Off helping someone more important? Where was Jesus? Off creating another planet? I felt insignificant, foolish, angry, and abandoned. I even yelled at God once. Ok, a few times. And somehow thru all the tears I felt Him there. It was like he really understood and he even understood my anger towards him. No condemnation. Not even the slightest correction. Just empathy. Just openness. He didn’t tell me why he left me alone. He didn’t explain why the fourth watch never came…..not to mention the fifth and the sixth and the twentieth. He just understood. I decided something in my heart that day. I felt a love that I hadn’t felt from any human in my life or around me. Had he really left me alone….or had he just given me an extended experience while he monitored my learning? I put my faith into discovering the meaning behind all the loneliness and all the struggle and the answers started to come to me and slowly I think I have made sense of it.

For a long time, I couldn’t believe in Jesus or healing. I really doubted the power of the priesthood in this respect and certainly had lost faith in mans ability to exercise it, if indeed it did exist. And then I was on a boat in Alaska floating near a big giant glacier. And quietly a voice feeling came into my mind. It was explained to me that sometimes healing happens in an instant and other times it comes in a process and that my healing would happen just like the glacier in front of me……slowly. But that after he was done, that the entire landscape of my life would look different. Fresh. New. Whole. And so I applied myself to heart wrenching patience.

I don’t know. Sometimes I wonder about all of us who have experienced these trials of faith. Is there some greater reason behind it? Are we being prepared for something or strengthened for some purpose later on?

You seem like a kind one, heber13. Maybe Father is doing something wonderful with you too. I wish pain wasn’t such a good teacher.

Much blessings to you. I look forward to more conversations with you in future.

[Poppyseed]

Hi Scott. Welcome. Orem is a good place. I am very familiar with that part of the world.

I don’t know if this helps but……

Quote:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

….when it says “god was manifest in the flesh”, this is consistent with the definition of the Godhead. Jesus is “God”….just not the Father.

I don’t know if I answer this question with an appeal to the scriptures alone. I feel it in my heart and my mind seems to understand the Godhead as truth, so when I read the scriptures I read them according to that understanding. Sometimes when they say God is speaking, I have to stop and ask myself whether or not it is the Father or the Son. I will sympathize with this concern though. Whoever wrote the scriptures sure did make this confusing at times. Perhaps they needed a course in simplicity.

Welcome to the StayLDS party. It is a party, right???

[Poppyseed]

Hello and welcome. I hope you feel that it is ok to voice the concerns you have. I am new to this site too and have been more than impressed by the way this community seems to receive these concerns. So different than other sites where I see members jump right to the defensive or attack a persons righteousness.

I know that there is a lot out on the internet that is alarming. I know that there are parts to our history that seems alarming too. My testimony has been twisting and turning as I try to make sense out of it and come to the kind of understanding that is what I hope Father in Heaven has. There have been moments as I have grappled with polygamy where I didn’t even want to believe in God even if He was the most powerful being in the universe if this was indeed how he saw women …. as something to be rewarded unto men (as vs. 55 seems to say). I think I would rather be an atheist.

As I have read section 132, I sometimes see progressive scripture and sometimes see flashbacks to the OT. I don’t know if I have made sense out of all of it. Sometimes I try to understand by referring to other times when he commanded his servants to do things that seemed immoral such as Abraham and Isaac or Nephi and Laban. I could prolly sift thru the OT and find a few more as the Israelites had “permission” to take out a few enemies.

I suppose God and I are going to have to continue having more conversations so that I can understand the context of 132 and his communications to those two specific people and then the context of polygamy as it relates to the whole eternal picture of things.

And with regards to Fawn Brodie…… when did she become unbiased? I mean, can you really trust her evaluations of things? I think it is clear she had an agenda.

Much Love.

p.s. And with regards to evaluating history, I am reminded of a line from the musical “Wicked” and I try not to take it all so seriously. Remember when the Wizard says “Elphaba, where I’m from, we believe all sorts of things that aren’t true. We call it — “history”.”

[Poppyseed]

You gotta love mormon guilt! Is there anything worse? Hmmm.. …. Catholic guilt, maybe?

I think we can decide not to take on all this guilt even if it coming on us like a fire hose. I often say that we are all in process. That helps me when people aren’t doing what I think they should when I think they should. And it helps me when I have been trying to sift thru all the doctrine and all the “what this person said” or “what this person wrote”…..and then all the feelings that seem to accompany it. It has taken me these last three years to feel ok about the church again. And even that I can’t say without reservation. And I am ok with it. God is ok with it too as far as I can tell. I think I underestimated his immense patience and understanding. I think only He knows really what I have been through and how it has affected and shaped me.

I have a MIL that deals out guilt like she passes out cookies! Always cloaked in passivity and always laced with shame and usually supported by some scripture. And she tends to dispense it when we are alone…….something that makes calling her out very difficult as it tends to make me look like a big fat meanie. I felt awful for so many years. Tried to make the woman happy. Tried to win her approval, or tell her my feelings, or ask her to stop. Nothing worked. In fact, all my efforts just fueled the fire. And so, I decided to think differently about her. Now I don’t let her have an opinion on what I am doing or how I am doing it. I guess I just decided that I would be the one to decide how I really feel about things….. including how I feel about my progress with spiritual things. And I look for more evolved people to share my feelings with. That usually means that the only person I talk to is God.

Wouldn’t it be so much better if we could actually listen to one another? Wouldn’t it be cool if we could all just let each other be instead of trying to “fix”?

I wish members of the church were more evolved with this kind of stuff. I mean didn’t we learn anything from the 50’s?

[Poppyseed]

Quote:

This is my first post on this forum, and I am not writing it to complain – I really am in need of some help, and seemingly have nowhere else to turn. This is not easy for me to write…even in an anonymous forum such as this. I am very fragile emotionally right now so, please do not judge me harshly for how I might come across.

I am physically, spiritually, and emotionally exhausted. I have spent my entire 20 year marriage working 2 and often 3 jobs to feed my family. For the past 12 years, I have worked 2 full time jobs the entire time, and simply don’t know if I can do it much longer.

Sleep to me is not an enjoyable thing as bad things happen to me at night, but I literally sleep 2-3 hours per night max. My mind is not clear, I have been making some poor choices, and my marriage is HORRIBLE! Clearly I need a change, but have no clue how to do it. Every time I plan on cutting back at work, the car breaks down, the roof starts leaking, or something else comes up that makes working less impossible.

Hi Wendall. How are you? I am glad you let some of your feelings out. You sound exhausted, spent, overwhelmed, and discouraged. I remember feeling that way quite recently. I don’t know all the answers but I will give you some of my thoughts.

First of all, just breath in and out and give your mind some rest. Don’t try to solve all of these problems at once. You don’t have to. I think more than anything you need to learn how to think differently about everything that is happening in your life. And that is something that CAN be done inside yourself and it can help change the landscape of your experience. You are trying to keep all these balls in the air for fear that one might hit the ground. Well, would it be really that bad if one of them did? If all of them did? There is a lot of strength and wisdom in letting go. Maybe it is this kind of faith that will lead you to your next steps.

Quote:

I have completely quit going to church due to some silly notion that I need to stay away to lessen my stress level. Of course it hasn’t helped much, but going back seems like an impossibly difficult task right now. The church to me is little more than a place that makes me feel guilty for much of what I am doing, and I don’t really need that right now. I’m beat down enough.

Let’s talk about guilt for a minute. I don’t have much use for guilt unless I have a very good reason and a clear understanding that it comes from God. The scriptures say we should have “godly sorrow” for sin. I am not sure that is the same thing as what you are experiencing. If I might make a guess, I would say that you are stuck in a lot of shame based thinking and that is NEVER EVER from God. It isn’t part of the gospel of Jesus Christ and it doesn’t help make anyone a better person or help anyone solve any problem in front of them.

Sometimes I think religious families teach shame, either directly or unknowingly. I know I was raised with loads of shame and so was my DH. Hard stuff, shame. It imprisons us and we beat ourselves mercilessly for our mistakes and weakness.

Satan is the author of this kind of shame. He is the father of all lies and shame is certainly based in such. God doesn’t see you this way. I doubt greatly that the Saints see you as horribly as you are seeing yourself. Give yourself a gigantic break here! Maybe you needed a time out from church. Heck, I took a time out for a few months and would you believe God himself counseled me to? Is there something in scripture that says we can’t take some time to heal or refocus or just breath for a minute?

Banish these thoughts. Absolutely refuse to entertain this kind of thinking when you are evaluating yourself or your performance. Only permit yourself to use the list that accompanies the definition of Charity. You could use a nice big dose of a few of those. Now I am not saying to be dishonest with yourself or to blow sunshine. I am suggesting that dealing with truth works better when we evaluate it with love. If you aren’t happy with your decision to stay away from church, then course correct in overflowing self love and go back. Stay only for Sac mtg if that is all your brain can handle. Make it your widows mite and trust that God accepts it as much as the rich mans millions. And then forgive yourself for going against yourself when you were overwhelmed.

Quote:

I have 5 wonderful children. My oldest son just started college and I barely know him due to my work schedule. The other kids don’t know me very well either, and my wife and I have been fighting like crazy. We didn’t say one word to each other for 4 months, and just started talking again, but now we only yell at each other. This morning I yelled the F word at her as I was leaving for work. Not talking was way better. I have filled out divorce papers, but haven’t yet had the courage to submit them.

Give yourself permission to stop focusing at everything that isn’t working. Hand it to God. Let Him noodle on it for a moment. Open your mind to what you can do. Maybe make a decision (a simple and balanced one) that you will take some baby steps in a different direction. What if you wrote a quick note to each of your sweet kids. Tell them in five lines or less what you like about them or some reason you love them. Something like “you have beautiful eyes” or ” that joke you told at dinner made me laugh.” Leave it on their beds. Kiss the paper as you put it on the pillow. And then go to work and feel better. Maybe next week, can take two steps towards your kids or maybe three.

With regards to your conversations with your wife, I would say that maybe you two need to start over. Maybe you need a giant reset button that can help to diffuse all the resentments and hurts and move you to a place of problem solving, listening, and healing. Maybe your marriage can’t be saved, but there is no doubt in my mind that you both couldn’t leave your marriage whole and in peace if you chose to change your course. It takes no more energy to listen than it does to yell a cuss word…. or to try and understand a situation without judgement instead of ignoring a situation because something in our heads thinks its easier.

Quote:

I have tried counseling, medication, and lots of fasting and prayer, but nothing seems to help. I am literally at the end of my rope and don’t think I can do it much longer. The bishop has given up on me and I don’t blame him, but where else do I go? Anyway, I am writing this in the hope that somebody, anybody will have an answer or at least a suggestion of what I can do to improve my situation. Thank you in advance.

You are absolutely right. You can’t keep living like this. It is a one way ticket to a crash landing. I don’t know what your bishop is thinking, but I think you gave up on you.

Look. It is a lie that you can’t do anything. I remember in some of my darkest days, Heavenly Father not answering my prayers by solving things, but by teaching me to stand up and dust myself off and look a different direction. I didn’t want that answer. I wanted Him to change others ….. to stop all the pain! His healing touch came differently though. I am so grateful, now, that Father didn’t “fix” things for me because I learned so much more by attempting the journey. You need to stand up! You need to start trusting yourself and your intellect and your talent…. along with trusting God’s influence to make changes in your circumstances. You need to seek help from the right sources. I mean therapists or self help books or that inner voice inside of you that you quit listening to. I think you need to go out and pick some stones and THEN ask God to touch them! God will move mountains and part seas and help you find peace. But it is you that must change your focus and use what energy you have into gratitude, proactiveness, and self power. God will magnify your power with His.

Blessings to you my friend, as you love yourself to overflowing and as you learn that doing that will give you much more capacity to love others and to solve problems. I think all of us at one time or another has run faster than we had strength. You don’t have to anymore.

[Poppyseed]

Could it be that ending doubt is not the same thing as filling in all the blanks to perfect knowledge?

It seems to me that he is saying that if one can discover the BofM is true, then it would give them reason to believe in the rest or exercise faith in the rest. Until knowledge and greater understanding of things and process can confirm ones faith.

Isn’t this the essence of “line upon line”?

[Author]

Posts