Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Heber13 wrote:HiJolly wrote:
I think this is due to the stupid people in the Church, not the Church itself. Lots of people actually WANT to be told what to think, to do, etc. I don’t blame the Church for people like that.
Good thoughts, HiJolly, I think I may add that book End of Faith to my reading list and have faith I’ll get to it someday.
I understand your point and what you were getting at with your comment above, I might just soften it a bit and state that people are at different places with different motivations. Some just don’t think about things as much as maybe some of the rest of us, and if it works for them, they don’t need to change. They actually just want leaders to tell them what to do. While the Church can’t be “blamed for that”, the Church leaders should be nourishing and teaching that there needs to be a longer sustainable faith to be developed. Some members just need hand-holding until they can think and walk for themselves. At some point, there will be a test of faith for everyone to question what their faith is truly based on.
…wait a minute…did I just describe Heber13’s recent crisis? I think I did.
💡 I think I was one of those “stupid” people that wanted everything to fit into the nice neat little boxes, and prayers answered when needed so I always know which way to go. Now I’m stretching my faith to deeper levels, and instead of abandoning faith…cling to it more passionately from a new viewpoint.
First….I just wanted to say amen to so much of what Hi Jolley was saying. So many things that I wanted to say, but he said it so much better. Thank you.
Faith is one of my favorite topics. I love what I have learned about faith from the LDS perspective. I haven’t found such understanding elsewhere. It is one of the doctrines that keeps me coming back to the mormon fountain to drink. I sometimes resent the implications or even accusations that mormons are brainwashed or that the church demands blind faith so it doesn’t have to explain itself. Maybe some mormons are! I certainly have met a few that made me wonder if all the lights were on or who became so fanatical or so lax that they lost true North. I think I resent it mostly because it has not been my experience. I have been taught from the time I was small to get my knowledge directly from God and the spirit and to then move forward in following the prophets. And many times I have exercised faith inside my study and God has taught me and opened my understanding in spiritual ways concerning very earthly things and of course scriptural things too.
I think that I understand how some might get confused and perhaps wonder how to make faith work in their lives as they try to figure out that powerful place in between blind faith and absolute proof.
Maybe what I am trying to say is a simple invitation to give faith a try again. I actually think one comes to understand faith best when exercising it. And I hope I don’t sound like a preachy mormon. If so I am sorry. But I really do think that scripture study does make a huge difference in ones understanding and capacity for faith. It is something that has blessed my life incredibly and I know God has met me on the other side of my strenuous exercising of faith. I think that is what makes the continuous pursuit so rewarding is that I do see the proof of God working with me and for me on the other side of what feels like darkness or stupidity or lame obedience. When I didn’t believe in God, I exercised my faith and found God answering me and reminding me of how He had been there in the past. ( process took about a year. maybe more.) When I doubted the scriptures, God showed me they were true AS I opened the cover and my heart at the same time and tried to believe. ( this just happened recently) The Spirit met me on the other side of my effort and I felt the spiritual confirmation and greater understanding. It helped me remember why I was LDS in the first place.
These last few days, even since I joined this site, I have been praying for God to help me feel the comfort of the truthfulness of this church and its efforts to move the work forward. I feel those answers coming and actually confirming some of the knowledge I gained when I was at odds with things. Very simply but deeply and I feel the doubt subsiding somewhat and that feels better than all the wrestling I was doing inside. That to me is another proof that faith really does bring knowledge and that my faith can turn to knowledge just like Alma 32 says so that my faith can actually become dormant in that thing.
Kastaway wrote:Heber13 wrote:What an interesting and emotional story. Thanks for sharing. I am eager to learn from your perspectives and your experiences. Especially how you can keep such faith in God throughout it all. What has been the biggest thing helping you feel like God is still watching over you, despite others’ failures?
Heber,
I have been told by many people, even my doctors, that I should not be here after the accident that I was in. If you think of a car windshield shattered by a rock, that is the condition that my skull was in. The only thing not broken in my head was my nose. Even the doctors were betting for the first 2 weeks that I was in the hospital were betting that I would not make it through the night. My accident happened on 28 June, 2005. My family was told that, if, I ever came out of the coma that I was in, I would be in a wheel chair for the rest of my life. I have had to relearn how to do many things, but I know that I was not suppose to give up. A week after I got out of the hospital, I have been walking ever since. I have learned not to take anything for granted. I had just gone over working 11 years at the post office in Provo, Utah. I had 9 years that I was in the US Army. I retired at 46 with 20 years of federal service and it took another year to get full disability. My wife was a stay at home mom. But she went to school and graduated with honors. And now has a great job working at the Roosevelt hospital. Our lives have gotten better. We got ouor house paid off and we are working on getting our kids graduated from school. My main doctor has told me that when he has a bad day, he thinks of my situation and his is not so bad. He has also told me that he has people that are still in wheel chairs and my injuries are 10 times worse. I cannot give up with all of the help that God has given to me.
Kastaway,
What could the Saints do to support you or to help restore your faith in their goodness now in your life?
Thank you for such a warm welcome. It is nice to know that I am not alone. I think something inside of me knows that these strugglings are part of my growth. I am finding comfort in that and it helps to hear the same ideas from others, so thank you. Looking forward to associating with you all. It helps me to view the church like a person. It has been growing and moving and adjusting and stumbling since its first beginnings. It has taken the most intense hits since the beginning too. When people take hits, they sometimes act defensively or pull back a bit. Maybe the church has elements of this behavior too. I have looked at these changes and felt alarm too. But I have come to terms with it. I am OK with the changes and the evolution of things. I think that is how progression really looks — not something perfect and untouchable from the first day. It is a stone cut without hands. It is a rough stone rolling, if I might steel that phrase. I think the Lord lets us as individuals struggle with our own weakness and I think He lets the church do the same thing. In my view, the church has grown up a bit with regards to how it does things and how it relates to the world around it and as it learns that it can’t be exclusive if the message is to go thruout the earth. I don’t see the church compromising its doctrinal position though in any degree. I don’t know exactly what you are referring to when you say that the church has become more Protestant. Sometimes I think we can learn much from our Christian brothers…..things that can help us with our own understandings. But that is different than compromising the doctrinal position of the restoration. When we start adopting doctrines like the Trinity, then maybe I might worry about us becoming more protestant.
I am wondering where the Ward Mission Leader is on all of this…..not to mention the ward missionaries. Aren’t they suppose to fellowship directly with new converts for the first year or so? I think the church needs to step it up with regards to retention efforts. We talk about it, but we need to address it more fully. I wonder if a meeting with your bishop, your WML, and the EQP might not be in order to discuss where the break down is happening and then to address solutions. If I were a bishop, I would certainly want to be made aware….not so that I could jump in and do it all ….but so that I could delegate and direct those delegations specifically and properly. And then on the other hand…..at some point we all have to learn to walk on our own. Perhaps your DH got nudged out the door a little too soon. But he can learn to be spiritually self sufficient too. I hope his struggles with lead him back to his early budding testimony feelings and not to fan the flames of offendedness.
Kastaway wrote:I was born at a very young age.
OK. I know that I don’t know you at all yet and that your post was very heart felt, but this line made me laugh.
Kastaway….I struggle with trust issues too. It is difficult when the members of the church don’t get it with regards to having charity (in the BofM sense…..the pure love of Christ….the gift that comes to the faithful, etc.) As I have tried to figure this out I find myself struggling with my expectations of people and my impatience with mormon culture. Sometimes I feel that mormons are sometimes human “doings” rather than “beings”. Maybe that is an understandable condition as we try to serve with all of our many responsibilities and assignments. But perhaps we are…..or at least some of us…..missing the capacities of love on the insides. Our fears and insecurities and self absorbing thoughts get the better of us and sometimes (too many times) we aren’t there for each other as we should or could be. There were many times in my darkest strugglings where I wondered if God was there and if He was sending anyone to help. Maybe He was and no one was listening. Maybe He sent them, but they didn’t know what to do once they got to my door. Maybe my expectations were misplaced as I had to learn how to endure never ending midnights. Maybe He let me struggle alone for some other wise purpose I can’t know at this time.
What I do know is this. I am not there all the time in the best ways for the people around me either. And….maybe that is ok. Do I need to improve? You bet. But I have learned to be ok with myself with where I am today with my progression, spiritual and otherwise. And if I can be that forgiving and patient with myself….knowing all my vast weaknesses….then just maybe I can let the rest of the church be wherever they are at on their journey too.
We are all in this life thing together. And sometimes life is very literally a veil of tears. Let your life experience turn to something more loving and more trusting in your heart. Trust God and trust yourself to handle lifes challenges and the very imperfect and painful people we meet along the way. Pain is an interesting teacher. It kinda breaks us down and disorients us a bit. Maybe that is by design so that it can carve out space for more perspectives and greater love for this whole imperfect life thing we are involved in.
Best wishes to you ….. and me as we learn HOW to trust again with all of our new understandings.
One concept that I love about the LDS perspective…..and something that did come from Joseph Smith …. is the idea that we can find truth wherever it is to be found as we study from the best books. I love Melody Beattie and her books about codependency and letting go. They have helped me so very much in my personal and emotional healing. I believe that God led me to her words because they were the words I needed at the moment and I have recommended them to others along my travels.
I don’t think that this takes anything away from the church. I don’t know if God meant for the church organizations and the people in it to be the balm for every problem or the answer to every concern. I certainly wouldn’t go to my bishop with a back injury. Maybe there are some issues in our emotional selves that fall into this category too. I believe that God is working through out this world among many who are not of our faith and giving them understanding and even enlightenment in order to help many.
But, I do understand how it feels to struggle with feelings of self love and learning how to take care of myself rather than needing my environment to do it. I know what it is like to risk sharing my concerns with a bishop who didn’t have the capacities to help me with my concerns even as I have plead to feel the healing balm of the Atonement in my life. It is a confusing and disconcerting thing and I am not sure yet if I have an adequate understanding as to why there are these disconnects. What I do know is that my Father in Heaven IS mindful of me and brings me what I need whether it comes from the RS or some other place.
So….add me to your list of Melody lovers. Maybe we can share sometime about what we have learned.
Hi. There was a time when I questioned the existence of God. But I think that my concerns about that issue are laid to rest. But, I did play out in my mind many of the questions you pose. I think mostly I would feel betrayed. I am sure it would change the way I deal with all finality here in earth life. And I am sure it would make me much more self sufficient and maybe even more scientific. I wonder too, if I wouldn’t feel somewhat lost…… or maybe that there would be a disconnect with how the world worked and how I felt deep inside. I think if there was no God, then much of this earth would seem rather meaningless to me.
Does that sound trite?
