[Queen Esther]

We recently saw the reaction of another religion to our belief/practice of ordinances for the dead, when Elie Wiesel and other Jews strongly objected to the Church baptizing Jewish victims of the Holocaust. Many were angered, and we saw the Church’s response, to instruct members to only submit their family names, not those of people they aren’t related to.

It seems like the discussion on this thread could also look at how our temple ordinances are perceived by those of other religions, and how baptizing their ancestors might be perceived by them.

I have a Roman Catholic friend who said she would be absolutely appalled if someone in the Church were to try to do temple work for members of her family. I said that Mormons’ philosophy in doing temple work was that the ordinance is done in order that the gift of the Gospel could be offered to those who had not had a chance to receive it in this life. I stated the rationale (that I have always heard in the Church): The person will have the chance in the spirit world to either accept or reject the “gift.”

My friend countered by saying temple ordinances are a form of spiritual coercion to those who are dead. She talked about herself first, and said that when Mormon missionaries come to her door, she has said to them, “But I already have the gift. What can you possibly give me that I don’t already have?” (and this woman is who prays several times a day and who really does have a strong faith in God).

Then she gave me this analogy – “Suppose that you are coming over to my house. I fix you a wonderful dinner – a real feast – the best china, cloth napkins, etc. But I don’t tell you about it. You come into my home and I say to you, ‘Look what I’ve prepared for you! Come on in, sit down, I’ve made all your favorite foods, just for you.’ The problem is you have already eaten and you don’t want to eat the meal. I didn’t tell you what I was doing. But look at all the work I went through. I spent hours preparing the meal for you. Are you going to ‘reject’ my ‘gift’? No, you will feel obliged to eat it, even though you’ve already eaten. So, how is that a free gift? Can the person who is passed on really make a free choice ‘to accept or reject’ the gift?'” Then she said, “don’t try to baptize me when I’m gone, or any of my ancestors. If you do, I’ll come back to haunt you.”

So what do you think? How would you respond? Can people who have passed on truly “accept or reject” the ordinance that was done for them?

Queen Esther

[Queen Esther]

I want to thank everyone who posted responses to my question about teaching Elder Hallstrom’s talk about the Gospel and the Church. It’s very helpful to have suggestions of what direction to take.

BobDixon, thank you for your comments. As others have said, you provided a different perspective and it does give me some things to ponder about – as far as finding “the deeper understanding” that is in the talk.

That said, I was taken aback by your statement below and appreciated Ray’s intervention as a moderator:

BobDixon wrote:

Coming from the inactive guy who just finished a wonderful cup of coffee, if it were me I wouldn’t be asking strangers on the internet about this. I would read the talks through two or three times and pray about it and see what inspiration you get and follow that..

If I were to take your statement to heart, it would make me think twice about posting on this forum. I am fairly new to this forum and the NOM forum. I’ve seen several posts on NOM where members have asked for suggestions on how to teach a particular lesson. I therefore thought (and still think) that it is okay to do this. But for you to say “I wouldn’t be asking strangers on the Internet about this” gives pause.

In your last post, you explained that you didn’t mean it to come across in the way that I (and apparently Ray) took it:

BobDixon wrote:

Old-Timer wrote:

I was just trying to make a suggestion. If I was trying to say “don’t do this” or “you’re an idiot for asking strangers” I would have said that. What I actually said was that this wasn’t necessarily a course of action I would have followed.

I appreciate your clarification, as well as the time you took to read the talk provide some well thought out ideas about the meaning of the concepts in the lesson. Thank you.

Queen Esther

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