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church0333 wrote:
I think I did fit into that category at one time but now I think I’m on the other end of the active scale. I was telling a friend today how in the past I believed everything and questioned none of it but now I feel like I question everything and believe nothing. I was thinking how all of this has changed in that past few years and how I got to the place where I am today. Some days it feels so comfortable but in truth it still hurts most of the time.
We could be twins.
My husband and I held several consecutive “high position” callings for several years. When we were finally released, I totally “fell.” I have no idea why. But suddenly…I hit a place like many on this forum and I’m just not sure how I got here.
I can say, though, that when I was released from my last calling (leadership for a few years), I drove home with a HUGE smile on my face and feeling quite content. No regrets in my calling (I tried to serve purposefully), and happy to hand over the reins to someone else. I also had the very clear impression that I was happy…genuinely happy…because I really did do the best I could do…and my mind’s ear heard “Well done, thou good and faithful servant.” Now, I rarely recognize answers to prayer. I rarely have spiritual experiences (only 3 in my life), but this was one of those times, so it leaves me feeling even more confused as to how I got HERE from being THERE.
GodisLove, we could be in the same ward…with the same position…with the same dilemma! I was in a leadership role not long ago…
I was also in a room with 12 men each Sunday, but I was asked for my thoughts quite a bit…and I gave them.
The whole “rescue” thing bothers me. We can’t “save” anyone who doesn’t want to be saved. That was my mantra for several years while in leadership roles.
Now that I’m out, I JUST got a call from our bishop…
Him: The missionaries want to reteach Sister A. Can you see if she is up for it by inviting her over for FHE so she can see how an LDS family could be?
Me: I am not interested in being covert, but I’d be happy to just ask her. I suspect, though, that she will be much happier if we stop talking about church with her and just be her friend. I genuinely like her and want to keep my friendship with her.
Him: Well, don’t ask it bluntly. Perhaps invite her over for FHE to be with your family?
Me: She appreciates candor. I’ll see what I can do.
And that’s where I left it. I have no idea what to do…she knows how the church operates, she knows why members make visits and she just wants to be left alone.
So, I’m interested in hearing what you decide to do with Sally. I may need to copy your idea.
I really like mine. It’s long. It’s packed with things that make me feel special. 
It talks a bit about my children…pre-existance stuff as it relates to them…and how they will be once they are here. It mentions that I will have children who will require special effort. I always thought I would have a special needs child…but I have the opposite. I have very bright children…so much so that I am kept on my toes to make sure their minds are enriched and their talents exposed. I honestly can’t keep up with them.
🙄 It speaks of my ancestors praying for me on both sides of the veil for a specific reason (though I have yet to find out what it is). I think that’s cool. I like to feel connected to my predecessors.
Some things seem like the regular fodder, but not all.
Sometimes it helps ME to read my PB from a different perspective. The above is an example…I prepared myself for a child with physical or mental handicaps…had I even thought to read my PB with the perspective of the other kind of “special needs”, I would have looked towards the future differently.
For me, I still like my PB. That’s not yet something I want to let go.
Would it help if you let a friend read it and and then let them comment on the blessing?
Roy…good point. I still sometimes fear that Day…afraid I’ll be turned to ashes or something. Dark…interesting thought! I guess David Koresh just wasn’t it, then?
Sisterwives (TLC) Polygamy USA (Natinoal Geographic)
My 5 Wives (TLC)
and The Dargers had a TV episode
I do feel a loss of the spirit when watching those shows, but it took me a while to recognize what it was.
And…you don’t think we’ll all be called to live in Missouri?
I’ve had similar thoughts…when I reflect on my “life” as a TBM, things were a bit easier, and I was “happy”…at least I think I was. I was going through the motions and not understanding many of them. I was very much worried about how others saw me, how I presented myself, how I saw others. I was so focused on the letter of the law, that I lost the spirit of the law. Now that I have taken a step out, I have tried to put myself back into the emotional place of a TBM. I COULD go back and put blinders on and just forget that I ever had questions…but I feel like I would be shortchanging myself.
If we were to focus on what Christ taught, we would almost not need organized religion at all. If our sole job here is to love others, we can do that without buildings and structure of Sunday programs.
However, like so many others, I still feel the need and draw to go to church on Sundays.
Strangely, since I’ve taken a step back, I’ve felt less happy than before.
I’ve wondered, is that the Spirit helping me see that a TBM is the way to go?
Am I feeling despondent b/c I don’t have it all figured out yet and I don’t know where to find the answers? Which then reminds me of the scripture that says that people will wander to and fro looking for the truth because they know not where to find it.
It’s mental gymnastics, I know.
But to answer the OP…perhaps the hardest part of “healing” and rebuilding our faith is that it’s painful. It’s hard work. It takes effort to cleanse our inner vessel and to change our hearts. It’s easy to follow the flock of the TMB’s…the thinking has already been done for us once we are in the group, right? It’s downright hard to come to terms with things we do not know.
Anyway…good post. I hope we ALL can find the peace we are so desperately seeking.
We obviously feel something that makes us stay or we wouldn’t be here.
In the end, when the Savior comes again (and I believe that He will) and He sets things aright, will we feel vindicated or sheepish?
:think: I know I don’t want to be wrong when that time comes…
1: I don’t like spook alleys at church functions. That sends the wrong message, in my opinion. 2: I don’t like to get to know someone while eating and shouting across the big round table to be heard. Either I talk with food in my mouth (and risk projectiles or food in my teeth), or I simply don’t eat.
3: With little kids, I’m more of a baby wrangler than a socialite and that keeps me from “wanting” to attend, but I go b/c my kids need the interactions and “fun”.
I missed the speaker’s name who just spoke during the Sunday afternoon session…the one about attending church on Sunday…am I the only one who cringed at his words? Not because I’m feeling guilty, but b/c I think he is off the mark a bit? I sort of felt like he was speaking from “old school” mentality…a contrast from Pres. Uchtdorf’s talk.
I wonder if this will help… Years ago, before my husband and I were sealed (we were married civilly first), we were called as stake missionaries. One of the elders we worked with was striking. At least, for me…he stood out. He wasn’t overly handsome, and he wasn’t “popular”. As we would often give the elders rides to and from, I was able to get to know him very well. We were about the same age (I married young). There were times when both he and I would have “bonding” moments…but not inappropriate. I can’t give details on those moments, but I am sure he felt what I felt…it wasn’t necessarily love…it was more “eternal”. I can’t explain it, but I felt strongly that he COULD have been mine, or WOULD be mine…or just “something.” Anyway, fast forward to today…I am absolutely in love with my husband and if we CAN be eternal companions, I am happy with that. But I would lie if I didn’t also hope that I could continue “bonding” with that young elder from so many years ago.
Do I know for sure that we can be eternally united as couples? No, I really don’t. But, it’s a nice thought and I believe that it is true. I also believe that if this elder and I met again in the hereafter and wanted to create worlds together…why couldn’t we? Why couldn’t all four of us (his wife and my husband) rule and reign together….or separately? How many families do we know here on earth where, say, a man has two families that he is actively involved with (maybe b/c of divorce). Or how many moms have multiple baby-daddies. While those scenarios aren’t ideal, they happen. I would like to think that Heavenly Father would allow couples to intermingle to create worlds.
That said, if there is no sex in heaven (it would be hell, actually), then there really should be no limit on who we “bond” with. We are all supposed to be sealed together anyway.
AND…who is to say that the choice we make here is THE right choice for eternity? I mean…geez…eternity is a long time to live with the wrong choice.
So…to answer your questions…why not tell both of these people to go for it? I would certainly hate to have to choose one love of my life over another. How depressing for the one “not chosen”. What kind of heaven would that be for him?
johnh wrote:My two cents are that Joseph got caught up in a bit of “Rock Star Syndrome”. I think he was a reformer who brought together a lot of great ideas that touched the spirits of people of his day. He fell in with other men who he looked up to, most of them good folks, a few scalawags.
Over time Joseph continued his work but was prodded and guided along an “organized religion” path by those mentors around him. Some of those likely helped Joseph explore his human side and then helped him justify it. To me this seems fairly obvious (circumstantially) as you look how things changed in 1838. After that point the organized religion thing really fired up and I think the church was mostly self perpetuating after that…with folks who deemed themselves more qualified guiding and directing this young fellow who seemed to speak so well to the spirit of the common person.
I think with the likes of Brigham Young, bennett, Snow around him Joseph found himself in a situation he was not sure what to do with…making mistakes and kind of blundering along in a church he likely never wanted….I can’t help but think of the fake religious leader in Iron Man 3 (that was an extreme charicature)….I think Joseph would not be a mormon today…not based on his wanting to drink beer or have sex with more than one woman…but because it is nothing like what he was looking for when he began his journey.
Shields up as I probably stepped on a million toes
JohnH
Many others share your views.
Though I had not thought about him “leaning” on other men and allowing them to shape his mind.
Some suggest that the church should disqualify section 132 in D&C. It was found in a drawer after JS died. Some believe that BY had it written to explain away the PM of the time.
Many would be happy to see it go…but in 132 we hear about eternal marriage. I don’t know of another place where eternal marriage is mentioned as doctrine but in 132. So, tossing the entire section also tosses the entire reason for the temple.
What gets me is … if section 132 wasn’t published during JS’s life, how did people know about eternal marriages?
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:I am extra impressed that you have the chutzpah to ask 90 year old women about specific temple wording and sex.
I’ve found that most 90 year old women miss having it, so they don’t mind talking about it.
😆 Memories . . .😯 :clap: :clap: ?? I posted an entire reply last night. What in the world happened to it? Did I get edited for revealing too much information about myself?
How odd.
Heber13 wrote:I believe church participation has very much an element of it that is to display our faithfulness and our example, even for the most humble.
With all things, there are extremes. One extreme is to be so prideful everything that is being done is to be for the display and affirmation from others…for those, they have their reward.
The other extreme is to do everything privately so others don’t know. There can be a downside of being the hermit who only cares about god and not others…for those, they can miss the social connections we create in church activity.
So…the first extreme makes me think of the Rameumptom.
The second…I just wonder if it’s possible to go to church … be nice and kind to people … participate in discussion but then go about doing the Lord’s errand without ever sharing our good deeds.
As for “homeschool” church…I once heard (doesn’t everyone just love the “I once heard” rumors?) that the time will come when we will HAVE to have home church. That actually excites me a little (obviously if I’m homeschooling my kids, I must like it), but I’ve not seen it in writing. Do you know of what I am speaking?
Thanks for your insight!!
Roy wrote:I love the scripture in Isaiah 43:25 “I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.”
I read this scripture to say that God deliberately looks at the good in us and de-emphasizes our failings. He does this because it make Him happy – “for my own sake.”
I like it!!
🙂 Quote:
But we do recognize. we recognize scout acheivement and young woman progress. We have them come up to the front of the congregation. We post newspaper clippings of our young people’s acheivements in the foyer. We as a church have a PR department that is very involved in promoting the church and advertizing the good that the church does.
Ooooh. GOOD point! Gooood point. Never thought of that. Interesting dichotomy. I’ll have to think on that one.Quote:
… I have to live with people and I can’t pretend that their opinions don’t matter.
Very valid point. You are right. I imagine that even those who say, “I don’t care what others think.” Really DO care.
Thanks. I would actually like to see “some” excitement in GC.
I remember being held captive in our chapel as a child…watching GC on small TV screens set up around the room.
Now that we can watch at home, my kids complain LOUDLY that they are asked to sit with me at all…so…I don’t even fight them on it. I do like to listen to conference…and I always hope for some enlightening moment. More often than not, I just hear a “good message”.
But…maybe?
Earlier this year a female was allowed to pray.
In October the priesthood session will be broadcast into homes! I bet men will simply not tune in, opting to watch something else with the remote instead.
I wonder what next spring will bring.
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