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So…back to what the endowment is…if it’s promises that we make…then my parents promised different things than I did…and my children will promise with another set of promises. Technically, I am still bound to hearken unto my husband and my parents are still under the blood oath (or whatever it was).
Am I missing something here?
It’s not like we are all suddenly bound by different promises. When I go to the temple now, I’ll be going for someone else, not for myself.
The Church statement about changing things to accommodate the times made me smile.
Regarding gender balance…does that mean that there wasn’t a need for balance 15 years ago?
😄 But “now” there is a need?
Not looking for answers to those questions, just thinking out loud (through a keyboard).
To me, I feel like his is what has happened over the last generation…
Church: men, be a leader in your home. Wives, listen to your men. We expect them to be leaders. We’ll make you promise to that in the temple. Can’t argue with THAT!
*Women grew louder and men grew quieter*
Church: well, let’s release the family proclamation…ahem, men, do you see it in print here? You have a lot of work to do. Women, take care of the kids. That’s all you need to be worried with.
*women grew louder, we discovered that women can actually do some pretty amazing things, men sit back to watch, many men lose their “manly role” in the home..*
Church: well, that didn’t work. Men, now your job is different. We have a new home study curriculum. We’ve seen that men can’t take charge, so we will put the women in charge of this. Men, all you have to do is sit back and watch. And just in case the women want to get even louder, we better reflect this change of power balance in the home through the temple.
Just saying.
FWIW, I love gendered roles. I love being a mom and taking care of the house. I love that my husband is the breadwinner. I don’t want to see women doing priesthood things like blessing the sacrament. I love the idea of our men protecting our women. I’m just old fashioned enough that some things don’t need to change.
🙂 Regarding the sealings that was mentioned above:
I still think that polyandry is the better way to go if we want to talk about plural marriage.
If women are now almost equals in the temple…
Anyway, I’ll stop now.
😆 It can be very painful when dear friends move – especially if we aren’t expecting it. I tend to prefer a few close friendships (like, 1 close friend) over several.
I was naive when I made strong bonds in my early days of marriage and assumed that everyone would stay the same. It was definitely devastating when I experienced the “loss” of good friendships when a family moved. I was ill-prepared for it and my emotions caught me off guard.
I have since embraced the fact that we are all temporarily in our locations. It’s unusual that anyone of us stays in the same place for any length of time…though we lived in our first home after marriage for almost 20 years, so we have a different perspective.
Anyway, I started entering friendships with the thought that it would be temporary. I don’t invest my whole self into friendships anymore and part of me mourns that connection, and the other part of me is glad that I’m looking ahead to future changes.
Amid that, I found a soul sister that I believe will be my (one) solid friend forever. She is a rare find for me, and I feel that I am the same for her. She moved several years ago and I cannot tell you how much that taught me.
I also realize that if I truly care about a person and I have since lost contact, I’ll have all of eternity to get to know them more.
As we are in a new ward (not by choice) and b/c my husband is a new bishop (1 year in), I find that I have hesitated in making friends here. I feel in unstable territory and I’d rather just sit quietly in the back. That said, I also like to invest in people who could use a friend, so it’s joyful and a challenge for me to find someone overlooked by others. Those are the best kind of people.
For your wife, I soo feel her pain. It’s a hard thing to do. We all have our “hiding places” and for her, it may be with her family.
Most often, others don’t need us as much as we sometimes need them, so keep that in mind as well.
It can also be hard to think that the friends that we wish to make also have families and lives and we are in the periphery.
Keeping that in mind may be helpful in drawing a balance between developing solid, strong friendships and being friends.
This rambling here may not help you at all, but please share with your wife, if you can, that she is not alone in her feelings.
I’m anxious to follow this thread and any follow ups you can share about this.
Thank you for your post.
1 – I know us women like to have our modern-day version of quilting bees. We could easily make our own quilts, but it’s so much more fun when we have others to help. In my family, and since we live close to each other, we take turns tackling big projects together. We may help my mom organize her garage one Saturday and then the next month, we all go over to my sisters and help cut down dying trees. The hosting family provides pizza and sodas. So…maybe the thought could be shifted to be something like the above?
2 – my mom served a mission in SLC where she worked in an office. I had a really hard time with that one. She was providing free labor for The Church..and she PAID her meager savings to do it! So, her “service” would definitely fall in the definition of free labor.
When we see members abusing the “service” system, we have to tread lightly sometimes. Likely, if someone is asking for help like that, they will also complain when help is denied…possibly be offended…and go inactive as they pout. It’s not a fun game to play.
I haven’t attended any of the pageants, but I’ll say this – if the main idea behind ending the pageants (according to some articles) is to allow families to spend more time together…why not attend the pageants…as families?
:think: I saw a comment on social media that said something along the lines of, “I miss the old church. The one that offered ward activities…the Green and Gold Ball (before my time), the ward dances, the seasonal activities, etc.”
I feel like we are becoming a fractured version of what was once a strong church community.
I see local churches advertising for weekday Women’s Bible study – or fall festivals – or summer sports camps – or marriage classes, and I look at what we offer…and it ain’t much (outside of the youth program’s monthly dances).
Instead of creating a church community/fellowshipping opportunities, we are being sent to the fringes and told to hunker down with our families.
Obviously we can’t change the trajectory of what The Church is doing, so it appears that if we want to get to know our ward members better, it will be up to us to create those invitations for family “playdates,” which, of course, will naturally leave out a lot of people (think cliques and all).
Anyway – that was a little OT, but the thought process is the same – we aren’t supposed to be hidden away in our families all the time and ending the pageant programs feels like one more way to close ourselves off from the social aspect of The Church.
So, I think that for me – it seems so commercial. I get that the Church has commercial enterprises, but for the most part, they are not discussed publicly.
Entering the world of entertainment – or the world of Mommy blogs…is weird.
It wasn’t long ago that the Church fb page was linking to and encouraging members to purchase products made by Mommy bloggers on their revenue-generating blogs.
I am totally fine with moms who run these blogs to tout their own products – capitalism and all.
But when The Church starts directing people to these blogs, I wonder.
It feels the same “weird” when the Church is offering to match box office sales. What makes that movie so special? What made the Mom Blogs so special. I don’t have a blog and I don’t own an entertainment company, so it’s not like I’m jealous. I just wonder – why doesn’t the Church offer to match sales to see the World Cup? Or the premiere of Star Wars?
We aren’t even allowed to mention products by name in church meetings. But now the Church is endorsing certain products?
Maybe it feels weird b/c it leaves the door open for other things and maybe b/c it can lead to confusion.
Anyway, if you’ve read any of my posts, you know that I have difficulty articulating my thoughts and this comment here is no different.
Sorry if I am not coming across the right way.
🙄 I need to read all of the replies, but the first few replies brought this to mind… One of our recent First Sunday lessons in RS was on faith.
The RSP said that many members are having a crisis of faith. Intriguing that she would broach this subject.
She went on to tell us that we needed to build our faith in the church/JS/BOM so that when chaos ensues in our minds, we already have our foundation.
😮 My hand shot up.
I said that our foundation of faith should first be based on the Savior. Period. That way, when people are offended and jump ship, they aren’t abandoning the Lord. They are abandoning the social interactions with members of our Church Organization.
I reminded the class that the Church and the Savior’s gospel are two different things. Understanding how both play into our lives is very important.
This poor RSP is trying to hard to do a good job, and I feel for her since she obviously didn’t understand what she was trying to address.
Perhaps there are more leaders like her who haven’t taken the time to understand where many FC members are in their journey?
OH, CRAP! I’m the seminary teacher (I am really struggling with this particular book of scripture this year).
How am I gonna approach this one?
😯 Appendage names? Mormon Tabernacle Choir??
Shall we change it to:
Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ Tabernacle Choir?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Choir?
“Mo-Tab” is out the door…
mormon.org?
Mormon Channel?
Mormon Newsroom?
All of the LDS social media groups…can’t now change their name to reflect the whole church name. That isn’t allowed, so many are scrambling to figure this one out.
“I’m a Mormon. I know it. I live it. I love it.”
Gotta change that one.
I’m a member of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. I know it. I live it. I love it.
Hmm – not as catchy.
:think: Poor Sister Dibb. She was just inadvertently chastised.
http://www.i-am-bored.com/2015/12/its-not-about-race-pic.html This photo is what I think of when discussions like this come up.
Sorry for the link, I don’t know how to upload a photo here.
This is poorly structured and I apologize in advance… In reply to what dande said about Africans…
Stop there for a moment.
Not all blacks are Africans (think modern).
We have good friends from Haiti who are so offended when people refer to them as African Americans. They are American citizens who are from Haiti and they speak lovely French.
We have friends from Trinidad…again, they don’t consider themselves African Americans, but don’t really know where they fit in the PC world.
A sister in our ward is Nigerian and has no interest in becoming a citizen of the US. She will absolutely rip you a new one if you refer to her as an African American. That woman can handle her own. I’ve seen it!
😆 The list could go on, but the
stereotypesare there for people with darker skin, and I think that is the bigger problem. Especially if they carry names that are indicative of the black culture (think blind job applications).
Living in the south and seeing how my area has changed, I think it really comes down to stereotypes, and not necessarily racism.
The most charitable acts I’ve ever seen were performed by members in my community who happen to be black, but dang if they can’t shake the stereotype that we expect them to be thugs.
🙄 I will add that the most awesome people around here are the older black men. They are so much fun to talk to! They are polite and respectful and full of stories.
The areas around me have a white minority (talking one white student in a classroom of other races…3 white kids per grade level, etc.).
But I don’t think that the students who drift into trouble are doing so because of racism. Heck, the whole community is made up of a mixture of races who are new to the area. No one is discriminating against them in their own school, or at the jobs in town. I think that, if anything, they are simply a byproduct of a culture that they can’t seem to break free from.
This PC world has gone above and beyond when it wasn’t long ago that someone in the news referred to Nelson Mandela as being an African American.
🙄 Our dearest friends are from South Africa. They are white. They speak with an accent. They have dual citizenship and are, in reality, African Americans.
The oldest daughter applied for a scholarship created for African Americans. This is a girl with outstanding grades, but who also comes from a low-income family. She was denied the scholarship and banned from reapplying. Why? Because she isn’t black. See, the scholarship said it was for AAs, but it didn’t say that the applicant also had to have darker skin.
I guess my point is that we can’t really use the term African Americans and think that it covers everyone who is black.
But I also wanted to put in my thoughts that maybe it
isn’t racismafter all. Maybe we just need to retrain our brains and
drop the stereotypeswhen we see truth in action. For what it’s worth: Years ago my husband had major, life-saving, emergency surgery.
It was a scary time for us and life stopped dead still while we waited and worried and healed during his week-long stay at the hospital and 6-month recovery time at home.
In that time, he received a number of hand-written cards and letters from strangers – all wishing him well and letting him know that they were praying for his recovery.
Why? Because his SIL, who is a member of another church, put his name and address on their prayer list in their prayer/cheer group. Sure enough, this church (not in our city) had a prayer/cheer group and when a parishioner knew of a need, they would add the name and sometimes the address to the group’s list. The group members then chose how to respond to the need. In my husband’s case, they sent letters and cards. At first I was a little put-off, but I it didn’t take long and I honestly felt love from my brothers and sisters in Christ not just for my husband, but for my family as well.
THAT was ministering in my opinion and I was so grateful for it.
If that is the kind of ministering we can participate in, I’m all for it.
It’s been fun to watch my facebook feed fill with tongue-in-cheek comments about how thrilled the sisters and brothers are to have a new program.
It seems like being given “permission” to just be a friend is what was needed. Being a ministering brother/sister…having a ministry…that “feels” like something to many people, I think.
If I had to have my parents in with any bishop interview when I was a teen, I would have never, ever come clean about my very “active” lifestyle. I would have waited until I was an adult before seeking help, and who knows where I would be now. My situation went all the way up to the stake presidency for another disciplinary council.
The SP told me to tell my dad about my situation. I refused (I had my reasons) and the SP told me that I faced excommunication if I did not tell my father.
😯 I then had to choose…tell my dad…or be excommunicated.
I didn’t understand the relationship between me telling my father about where I was with church standing (he wasn’t in any leadership position) and my membership in the church. I still don’t.
I opted to tell my dad.
But I’m telling you, to this day, I wonder what kind of trouble that SP will be in when his time comes.
:think: So, this policy – good and not good.
Maybe it could be tweaked so that if a child/teen initiates the interview, the parents don’t have to be present?
When I was RSP, I hated, hated coming to WC after the men met in PEC. They were doing us women a courtesy of asking us what we thought about the decisions they had already made in PEC. Waste.
Of.
My.
Time.
Glad to see it gone. I had not heard the news until I read it here.
Thanks for keeping us in the loop.
I haven’t attended SC in years. No one will miss me.
I’m not battling toddlers on my lap for 2 straight hours.
:crazy: I was in your situation last school year. My oldest was a senior and was starting to get attitude (new ward, raunchy kids his age, etc.), but he never had attitude in class. In fact, he sat quietly and answered questions if asked. Even at that, his teacher threatened to kick him out b/c he was so quiet in class. That woman! Grr. 😡 Anyway, he eventually stopped attending, but mainly b/c I stopped taking him when we had medical issues at home that prevented me from leaving the other kids behind to take my sons to seminary.
Even though he didn’t like seminary, I saw him slide even further down the moping path.
I dislike the early morning bit. I disliked his teacher.
BUT – and this is a bit BUT…we changed wards and now I am the new seminary teacher!
:crazy: Actually, and this is the honest to goodness truth. I have come to love this calling and the kids so, so much.
There are days that I drag my sorry butt out of bed and wish I could cancel the class, but I keep going and since I can teach at my house, it works well with my littles here so they can keep sleeping while I teach.
I wouldn’t be on this forum if I had not had some type of faith crisis myself. But this past year has been a tremendous source of strength for me. I love the BOM stories. I can honestly say that the gospel truths here are so pure and wonderful. So you know, I separate the Church and the Gospel – they are two different things. So, the gospel is what I teach.
The kids are the ones who remind me that they like the way they start the day. They make it worth my time.
Now, to your question – what is a good reason? From my standpoint now, there is SO much to be gained by a discussion of gospel principles and if the teacher brings lessons to life, then the class is fun.
We have done all sorts of fun/crazy things this year – from water color painting to scavenger hunts to shooting Nerf guns in class – I try to make sure that there is some movement and some interaction.
Sometimes being reminded of the gospel basics and talking about them with peers before going to school can be a build-up.
However, if your teacher is not energetic, and if your son is giving you push-back…then 1: be grateful that your seminary teacher is willing to take on this monster of a calling and 2: find another solution.
Could your son go to class, say 1-2 times a week and then submit homestudy work to the teacher on the off-days?
Could your son take online classes?
I really do think that a study of the scriptures (when viewed from the gospel standpoint) is important. To understand the need for a Savior is a great foundation.
Anyway, hope it helps!
