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I’m not sure if this will get read by those who didn’t like the “we need the sisters” talk, but here we go: I actually liked the talk and here’s why. I know far too many sisters who are talented and more than capable of just about anything, but these sisters are sort of lost in the shadows. Some may feel that their place is at home and not in ward council. Some lack self confidence that their voice matters.
I am so hopeful that those types of sisters will realize that they CAN be heard and that they will begin to share their thoughts and feelings with the brethren.
Of course the ratio of men to women in ward council is still quite skewed, but that’s another change for another day.
Like Ray, I think that talks like this can be seen as a small step and one that will hopefully open more dialogue.
Those who are in this group who didn’t like the talk probably already feel that they can speak up and out – and didn’t want the “obvious” to be stated. I get that. But I’m thinking that the sisters who needed to hear the “empowerment” talk aren’t in this group.
All in all, the conference was good for me – and I think it’s because I didn’t come to it expecting diving revelations from the speakers. I wasn’t looking for anything earth shattering. I wasn’t looking for something to nit pick or complain about. I was looking for encouraging words. Period. I found them, so for me it was a win.
I like Ray’s stance that all parties involved in plural marriage in the hereafter will do so because they all WANT to. Women and men alike.
Now then, someone earlier said that we should get rid of section 133 altogether.
While this seems easy and would solve the polygamy debate, it also removes one of the main selling points of our faith…eternal marriage. Removing the section is problematic for this who still believe in temple sealing.
I can’t find another scriptural stance on eternal marriage.
Any answers there?
1 – I have enjoyed the scouting program for my boys not because they are taught to lead, but because they are exposed to new ideas all the time. We attend merit badge clinics as often as we can – especially when they are held at universities in our area. My boys have tried their hand at…milking a cow, metal working in a college art room, orienteering with the ROTC, small boat sailing, rappelling, archery, law, engineering, music, aviation, etc. For me, it’s all about exposure. 2 – my talk went well. I struggled to write it and stay on the assigned topic…so I ditched all of those efforts late Saturday night and changed it to How the scouting program can help us become more like the Savior…because, after all, wouldn’t we welcome a program that offers to do that?
The scout law lists character traits that are all in line with what the Savior is like. I went over each trait.
Thanks for the input, everyone.
I think we should have a discussion thread where we all post SM talks we’ve given.
our HT gave a good example… PICKLES!
Briefly:
Cucumbers are not pickles. They don’t smell like pickles, or taste like pickles, they don’t always look like pickles but they all the potential to become pickles.
We start out as cucumbers.
We want to be pickles.
Making pickles is a process.
Conversion is a process.
Conversion is testimony put into action.
I have a testimony that flipping the light switch into the up position will turn the light on. I’ve seen it done many times. Conversion is me actually flipping the switch myself and seeing the results.
My own thoughts…testimony of the church is not testimony of the Savior.
Good luck!
I haven’t felt anger at all. Or bitterness. I really think that most church members (even some leadership) have simply not sat down to think some things through. They are not bad people trying to purport a lie…I was just like them once, so I understand what it is like to simply do what we have always done and teach what we have always taught.
For me…I found confusion with the mental gymnastics of it all.
Now that “some” things are more clear for me, I find frustration at others who are over zealous.
Multiple earrings, for example – not something I worry about anymore, but get frustrated when others launch an attack on a church member with more than one set of earrings.
I don’t think I’ve even felt sadness – but only because I’ve found new ways to think of things. I don’t feel as though I’ve lost anything…rather, I feel like I’ve gained some insight that I didn’t have before.
As one commenter above said…I feel more empowered…like I’m finally asking the right questions…like I’m finally starting to “purge” my heart.
Oh, wonderful response. Thank you for taking the time to write that out. I think I’ll pay more attention to GC this fall.
And you are right…each ward is run differently and it seems that at least in mine we hear recycled CG talks every. single. Sunday and while there is merit in CG talks, I agree that the focus should be on developing a “worship service”…not a “catch up on the latest and greatest” talk.
Thanks again.
I’ve always had a problem with: Men get the priesthood and the presiding “responsibility”
Women get to be mothers.
But…Men get the priesthood AND they also get to be fathers.
I mean, a woman can’t be a mother without having a participating father (in a general sense).
So that really just leaves women as…we get to be mothers.
For those who say that men can’t “bear” children…lol!! How many men do you know who can’t wait to push something the size of a watermelon out of something the size of a lemon (even with pain meds…it takes time to heal down there)? I mean, really? How many men want to hang over a toilet for 4 months straight losing meal after meal? How many men really, really want to lose a fair amount of mobility because there is another human inside of them? And, for those women who can’t have children…how many men really want to sit on a pad for a a solid week out of every month because they are leaking bloody fluid?
:thumbdown: Sorry – being pregnant now is not helping this post, is it? I just really want to sleep through the night without someone kicking my bladder every few hours.
:crazy: But in all reality – I don’t want the priesthood.
But I don’t want someone to tell me that I should want it, and as a consolation prize I “get” to bear children. *even if I don’t want to sometimes* (talk about being trapped!).
My husband doesn’t ever tell me what to do and when/how we have children is really up to me not him. I’m the one who “runs” my house. I have no complaints that men “command me”…they may ignore my ideas, but I don’t feel “ruled over”
I think many women feel the same way I do. I guess for me, the real disconnect is the temple…(well, PEC/WC is a different topic)…
The temple is the worst place for me for two reasons:
I have to cover my face and rebreathe my own CO2
:eh: and
I “can’t” know my husband’s new name (though I’m sure I could find it on the internet if I really wanted to)
:think: Until one of those two things change, I have zero desire to attend the temple anymore. Sad, huh?
For me…only then will I feel like the church leadership is taking positive steps.
No, I don’t think God or Jesus wrote the temple script to include those things. I think they are the philosophies of men…
:problem: Re: Polygyny/polyandry: I think that it’s a question unanswered. I’ve read many references were leaders have said that it IS required, while other leaders say that we simply don’t know. If the brethren are still debating, then it’s not settled. We don’t preach it. We don’t practice it. It’s a poorly written section of scripture anyway – clunky and awkward. I wouldn’t mind it if was moved out of the D&C and into a “history” section. Now then, I think I have come up with a new phrase to help ME define some hazy tradition/culture things…
ready?
“Cultural Doctrine”
🙂 I like it. Things like earrings, cultural doctrine…no caffeine, cultural doctrine.
I think I might go shopping one day and try on a cross necklace. They have such pretty ones now. If I’m not struck dead by wearing in the jewelry store I might just buy it.
:angel: DarkJedi wrote:Interesting points Hawkgrrrl and Ann. My understanding of the whole cross thing is that it was not unusual for members to wear crosses until the McKay administration. Apparently Pres. McKay didn’t like them, and more specifically as I recall, he didn’t like that they became popular for young women to wear.
I believe it did start with President McKay.
What I think interesting is that it seems our leadership was asked this question often enough that they had to come up with an answer. I am sure many of them didn’t even know the origins…and then began to say that we focus on the living Christ instead of the dead one.
Like Dark, I think that’s true, but that isn’t the
reasonwe stopped using crosses. This is much like the double earring debacle.
This is also much like the “no caffeine” cultural presence.
All because a church leader expressed an opinion.
I sure wish our leaders would say, “You know what? We don’t know the reason.” Instead of making something up…that leads us further away from the truth (I think) and then including them in official church publications.
I think it a bit worrisome that leaders would rather further vain traditions instead of either correcting misnomers or researching them on their own.
shoshin wrote:
The four standard works. Right? Maybe I don’t get your question.There’s plenty about temples in the scriptures.
I would add to “the list” in line with temples…
Why men can know the wives’ new name, but not the other way around?
Women veiling their faces (though there is a reference in the OT about women covering their heads while praying, but that might be a bit of a stretch for me to consider it doctrine in the temple ceremony).
Washings and Anointings…obviously something is amiss there as the “way” it is done has changed over time.
For that matter…the entire wording and actions of the temple.
The temple video!
No ring exchange during sealing.
Waiting a year after civil marriage before a sealing can take place.
*if men can be sealed to more than one woman in the temple, why can’t it be the other way around? In D&C it sure sounds like a woman can “have” another man as long as he is anointed with the holy anointing to her, so…?
The whole line of TR questions.
Thanks again for giving us some things to think about and a measuring stick of sorts.
🙂 Good OP! I’m so excited to read through the list and give it some thought!!
As far as using scriptures as doctrine…Be careful b/c somewhere in the OT women are told to cove their heads during prayer…which I guess we do in the temple (grrr)…but not anywhere else.
So there has to be a “filter” to use when looking at the scriptures for “our” doctrine.
Still…thanks for starting this thread!
:clap: mackay11 wrote:Maybe you should email the bishop this:
http://standingallamazed.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/christ-centered-sacrament-meeting-topics.html Oh, my!! What an amazing list. I will pass this on, for sure!!
Thanks for sharing it.
:clap: Sheldon wrote:the RS Pres made more HT assignments recommendations that the HPGL and EQP combined!
When I was released as Bishop, over the pulpit I thanked the three sisters that had served with me, and remarked that they were my “3rd Counselor”, and that I couldn’t have done it without them.
That sounds very lovely!
You must have been a great bishop. Can I be your next RSP when you are called again?
:angel:
