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DontKnow wrote:
I don’t mean to bump up a really old thread, but I have a few quick questions.
What would be different in the church if Sect. 132 was never included in D&C in the first place? Would temple sealings and endowments be the same as they are today? Or would temples have a different purpose?
Sorry if these questions have been answered before.
What an excellent question!!
I’ve wondered what the purposes of ancient temples were.
Washing and Anointing were part of them, I believe, but beyond that…what did people do there?
I am not sure that they were involved with eternal sealings.
If 132 were never published, I think that our temples would serve a very different purpose.
If anyone here is following my posts, you’ll roll your eyes when I say that I am totally in favor of polyandry and will welcome it any time. 
🙄 Seriously – look at section 132 again. Find the verse that says that a woman CAN have a second husband. Yes, I know that the Lord has to “give permission”, but hey…at least it’s a start and it’s permission more than that. We’d have a hard time finding a man in today’s society who is “okay” with sharing his wife (just like it’s hard to find a woman who is really “okay” with sharing her husband), but I’d like to know that the permission and, dare I say, blessing is there for me to take on another partner should I ever feel the need.
Personally, I don’t believe that 132 was divinely inspired. I think it was written by a man to explain behavior. This is only problematic for me b/c 132 is the only scriptural place that I can find where eternal marriage is mentioned. I am fully prepared to accept that eternal marriage is not “real”, but for now…I’ll focus on surviving the marriage I have here.
It’s hurtful to think that we are treated differently because we have vaginas, but… “suffer it to be so now”.
Nothing will be solved today – or even tomorrow.
Hang in there – you aren’t alone and you are in extremely good company.
nibbler wrote:.
Your entire response was most helpful. Thank you for understanding!
You are right…the challenge is not to paint with a broad brush. Perhaps in our area, MOST people abuse the system.
The illegals here would never want to return home where they have to work. I mean, heck – if I can move to a country where I don’t have to work and get all of my bills paid by a church that I attend once a week…I’m ready to move now! ha ha!
TataniaAvalon wrote:As someone who does receive food orders and occasionally financial assistance from the church let me chime in. My husband and I both work and most months it’s a choice between food or bills, so we choose bills and will get food from the church. Now abuse can happen with a food order (my husband had roommates that did) and I do feel that it could be more regulated. But I think the way to do that is through education not lessening the amount. I for one can make a two week food order last one month. I do this through creative uses of the food, plus I bake which is a great advantage. For those of you saying a family on food orders eats better than you, I bet you are not restricted to pasta, rice or mashed potatoes for your carbs. Or that you can only get the same canned fruit or vegetables each month… basically don’t judge until you’ve been on one. Trust me if I could I wouldn’t be.
Please understand that there ARE families that I’ve known who have been in desperate need of food. Families that I have BEGGED to take more than they are asking for.
Perhaps making the general statement that ALL welfare recipients eat better that *I* do was unfair.
I never, ever have as much fresh produce in my fridge as welfare recipients are offered.
My point in my post was that there are SOME (sometimes many) families who are receiving help who need to be cut off…even if just a little bit. They know that they can pay for their new car AND still get food. They know that they can STILL do online gaming and get food. I’d say that for those families who are unwilling to give up their luxuries, they really should be counseled and then if they still don’t want to change, they need to be either cut off or the amount of help they receive should be lessened.
If my family is foregoing veggies and fruit b/c we can’t afford them and, instead, putting our “extra” into FOs, I really have an issue with another family abusing what we sacrificed to give.
The same thought applies to the “Giving Tree” at church.
Ugh.
The families on that tree are often asking for things like video games or video game play systems…name brand clothing…jewelry, etc. My own kids aren’t that fortunate at Christmas time, but each year we scrimp a little more and donate to the tree. Actually, this past year we skipped the tree since the tags were to support an entire wish list of one child. It was sort of liberating.
Anyway, I am sorry that you need help from the BSH. I’m certainly not a fan of canned turkey, but don’t forget that you can also get bread, tortillas and buns for carbs.
I hope that as you continue to be resourceful you’ll soon find a place where you can once again stand on your own feet and not need assistance.
I used to think that the tokens would literally be given as we walked down a corridor to heaven. That was also when I believed that we were “earning” heaven…paving the road with little works of kindness…building our literal mansion with small deeds, brick by brick.
I used to giggle when I thought of my anti-LDS friends who would NOT be allowed to pass the sentinels on their way to heaven and I envisioned myself waving to them as *I* passed into the pearly gates.
And then…my shelf crashed.
I haven’t been to the temple in a long time because I don’t like the confusion there.
Because I HATE veiling my face…its’ HOT under that fabric.
Because I walk away disappointed each time.
Because the celestial room (to me) is like a museum for the pure of heart. I feel like if I’m not engaged in mighty prayer and receiving divine revelation, I’m doing it wrong.
But…that’s just me.
One thing that MIGHT be helping my understanding of the tokens is this…
We homeschool our children and in teaching my younger ones how to read, we use silly and fun hand and body motions for each letter’s sound. The motions have nothing at all to do with reading, but the body movement helps my kids to remember what sound a certain letter makes. It’s all about remembering.
Perhaps the motions in the temple are done to help us remember what it is we are promising.
Perhaps the motions have nothing at all to do with whether or not we will “get into” heaven.
I’ve often thought that if I were to step out of the picture with my children learning their sounds and only left them with the motions and sounds, they would not know that the motions would soon fade away as their brains started putting logic into play. They would continue with motions when they read and they would not know why they were doing the motions. They would probably teach those same motions to their kids without a proper reason and the tradition would be passed on. Maybe that’s what happened with the temple motions. There was probably a reason for them in the beginning, but that reason wasn’t passed down and now that we are thinking for ourselves, we are confused.
mercyngrace wrote:The most beautiful principles (to me) in Mormonism are also in early Christianity and Eastern Orthodoxy. Others are in nearly every faith. I have such holy envy for many other faith traditions but find myself drawn time and again to the same core principles that fill my life with light and hope. That these principles are a part of Mormonism is a primary reason I stay.
Which principles do you find most endearing?
And, I also like the long-standing traditions of other religions and sometimes wish we had hard and fast traditions as well.
l married my husband civilly first since he had only been a member for a few months and there really was no reason to wait. And you know…I’m SO glad that I did.
SO glad.
I now have a wedding video that I can show my children.
My husband had “that moment” when he saw me turn the corner to walk down the aisle.
His father was his best man.
We actually spoke vows and we used rings
INthe ceremony to symbolize those vows. (gasp!) Thankfully we avoided drama with the in-laws and we were all blissfully happy.
The more I think of it, the more I’m so, so glad that we waited to be sealed. We had a year to ourselves to explore each other more. When we finally went to the temple for our own endowments, we went as a couple…we drove ourselves there…we talked about it as we drove…it was “our” thing (and while I don’t care for the temple ceremonies so much now, it was new and exciting at the time).
My children are not yet old enough to get married, but the time will come for them…and when it does, you better believe that I’ll encourage and support a civil ceremony first.
I don’t understand the frantic rush to be sealed anyway. What isn’t done on earth can be done posthumously, right?
Anyway, I would like to see the church leadership relax its stance on this one year waiting time. It is like a punishment for those who don’t obey “their rules”.
Old-Timer wrote:I see it as a rhetorical question, and I’m not concerned that the Book of Mormon doesn’t add lots and lots of new doctrine to what we have in the Bible. I don’t see that as one of its purposes. In fact, one of the stated purposes is to encourage people to believe the Bible. Most people forget that.
I thought about it as acting as a “Second Witness”
If that’s the whole purpose of the BOM, then I’m cool with that…but let’s focus more on witnessing for Christ instead of herding people into our buildings.
But my mind keeps going back to the whole, “We NEED the BOM to fill in the gaps that the Bible left us when it was translated and complied and mucked up.”
And if that’s the case, then I am looking for a list of “answers”.
Some have been mentioned here on this thread.
MY ward is ALL about this as well! :think: :think: In fact, WC meetings is a great big missionary discussion.
Absolutely no calendering can be discussed (I tried…repeatedly to bring up calendar issues and was shot down each time).
We may have the occasional welfare need…as it relates to missionary work. lol.
I will say that in the beginning, HtW sounded a bit exciting. i mean, what could possibly be about to happen that we need to “hurry”? And…not a whole lot is about to happen, so I think many members who were expecting something great and exciting are now feeling a little deflated.
In our ward, we meet twice a year to go over the ward roster (well, when I was in a position of leadership) and each time we meet, we discuss the. same. people. And each time “someone” makes notes to send their records to SLC or to visit them and ask about their interest level. And each time “someone” failed to do it before.
Our WML says (and I actually agree), if someone is antagonistic or doesn’t even remember being baptized, remove their names from the church records. Bring them a letter to sign that says, “Get me the heck out of this organization.” and simply be done with them. They know were we are if they change their minds, but after 50 years of yelling at ward members who approach their door, it’s time to cut the line.
Alas, our kind bishop says that we need to keep them in the flock. So we talk about them twice a year in a wasted meeting.
But, to answer your question again, the focus IS very much on missionary work in my unit as well.
I do hope it’s a “fad” and fades soon.
I like the idea of focusing on charity.
Maybe if we start to teach doctrine/principles like charity, missionary work will likely follow.
DarkJedi wrote:
I’m sure your relationship with your spouse is different than mine, but mine understands that if I don’t want to go I’m not going and she can go by herself.Is that because you are “out in the open” about your questions and concerns with the church?
I had a heart-to-heart with my husband a few months ago…stayed up until the wee hours of the morning. i explained so much of my concerns to him. He just listened and didn’t say much other than…”What changed?”
So…he knows a little of my angst. I COULD say “I’m NOT going. Period.”
But I’m not sure I want to have to explain myself…cause drama…make him/the bishop wonder.”
But then again…maybe I need to be a little stronger in this area and follow my feelings?
Ugh – I’m so indecisive. I always say that it’s a miracle I agreed to marry anyone at all.
SilentDawning wrote:
It was deeply inspiring and activated me and my family — and it lasted for a few years, even after we moved into a Ward that was exactly the opposite of this particular Ward.
Wow. What a ward. Sounds like it was amazing.Once you moved, what changed for your church attendance…or did it change?
I am not a full tithe-payer, but not because I don’t want to. We had some financial setbacks and my lack of balancing the checkbook didn’t make things easier and tithing was one thing I honestly just “never got around to”
I now have tithing set up on auto pay so that a check is sent to the bishop’s house each month.
I was not a full tithe payer last year either…same reason. Numbers are simply not my thing.
Anyway, I really don’t feel like going to TS to once again say that I am not a full tithe payer.
I told my husband that I didn’t understand the need to go see the bishop about it at the end of the year anyway. He didn’t comment but was cornered in the hall at church and was basically asked if he was free at a set date and time. My husband said yes, and was then told that that was “our” time for TS.
So…I won’t bring my children into TS with us. They don’t need to hear about our financial woes.
I don’t want to go, but promised to follow my husband in if he felt strongly that we go.
We’ll probably end up going so we don’t make waves.
I’m actually not embarrassed to tell the bishop that once again I failed to write that bi-monthly check for part of the year. But I don’t know why I have to tell him anything at all.
I’m terrible at articulating my thoughts. Any help with what I shall say to bishop would be welcome.
SilentDawning wrote:After visiting over 200 homes and trying to “commit” scores of less active people to activity, I would like to add my own version of a successful rescue effort.
“Make the experience so good that when people spontaneously come to church, they are inspired to come again”.
I can cite one Ward that did this. I had been less active for about 7 years, and had moved into the area. Our family started attending the Ward and it totally energized us. I ended up in the Bishopric, started paying tithing again, went to the temple monthly, and started really engaging with the experience.
In short, the Ward met my expectations of what a Ward full of people who had made baptismal commitments should be doing — at least — enough people did it that I could believe in it. We came home spiritually fed and it ignited my desire to be part of the experience again.
I would love to hear what the church did or said that made it work for you.
Could you share with us?
I think the whole “no activities on the Sabbath” tend to lend a “austere” appearance to our members. We shut ourselves away in our homes on Sunday. If we go out, we are judged. Maybe I just need to find a way for my family to be more involved with community service and not rely on the church organization to do it for me.
