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I posted a link to the “Let Women Pray” site on FB. I got a lot of angry, ignorant tirades from a few people. But then most people on FB that I see in real life didn’t comment about it at all, but talked to me later and were commented that I have some really “interesting” FB friends. Quote:Shouldn’t we help people learn the real history but in a safer place than an anti-site?
Yeah, but even a fairly benign site like BCC will not be well received by mainstream members. It is hard, but in general I try to refrain from teaching the general public about the history. They are happy in their faith as it stands, let them remain so. With my children, who I have an obligation to teach, I portion out the history a little at a time as appropriate. Getting it all in one lump sum is overwhelming for most people, and usually they either just reject it all, or it causes a genuine faith crisis. A faith crisis is so difficult and painful, i would never want to be responsible for causing it in someone else.We were in a ward once that had very high home teaching numbers. They also asked all the priesthood who hadn’t been home taught during the month to stay after church for 15 minutes on the last Sunday of the month. One of the Elder’s quorum presidency would take attendance and teach a short lesson, then count everyone there as having been home taught. I can count on one hand the number of times my DH has been home teaching in our marriage.
I can also count on one hand the number of good home teachers we have had, that number is 3.
One of them did visit us very regularly, he also invited our family over to dinner, help us with things, and made an effort to at least say hi to us every Sunday.
The other two hardly ever visited, but were very friendly and caring and we knew that if we ever needed anything, they would be there in less than a second.
We have had really bad home teachers that visited us every month. A bad home teacher that comes regularly is the worst kind. At least when a bad home teacher ignores you, it doesn’t bother you much, but when you have someone to insists on coming to your house once a month and still doesn’t care about you…
In all, having a few great home teachers has made it worth all the other ones we have had to put up with.
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Have you borrowed anything that you have not returned, or paid for?Wow, I guess that would finally get me to return my library books on time.
Quote:Take the current brewhaha about women praying in General Conference. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if a woman prays in a General Conference within the next year or two – but I actually think the “lobbying” happening online might delay it for 6-12 months past when it might have happened without an organized “lobbying” effort. The Church is aware of discussions like this, and, I believe, has made changes and statements as a direct result of that awareness – maybe not as many and as quickly as most people online would like, but in multiple instances, nonetheless.
Why would this movement delay it? Do you think the church would wait to do something they were planning on doing to try to prove that they weren’t influenced by members? Or is there some other reason that I’m not thinking of.
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Dax, it sounds like you’ve never been a Bishop or Stake President.😆 If I didn’t know you better Ray, this would so have set me off.
I really am not to worried about these comments. So many worse things than this have been said at BYU Devotionals, and they are basically forgotten by the bulk of the membership. However I’m sure that if someone wanted to go looking for a quote to make someone look bad, I’m sure BYU devotionals is where they start.
Welcome, I’m excited to see you start posting. Quote:As we pray, we separate our conciousness from the temporal world and connect to this vast store of universal truth.
This is the single best definition of prayer I have ever heard. Thanks.
Quote:In the spirit of Wayfarer’s comment, I truly see the admonishment for women to adjust their ambitions downward to staying in the home only as a relic of the 1950s. I really believe it is advice from the wake of WW2 when men returned from war, yearning for the safety and warmth of their childhood homes, and they needed to feel they didn’t have to compete with their wives (whom they also wanted to see as mothers at this time rather than partners). People raised on this idea, who bought into it wholeheartedly, continue to sell it to others. Is it the gospel? No. It certainly wasn’t in the early days of the church when women & men were working side by side to build houses and work the farm. Everyone worked 80 hours a week. Now that we are in the information age, the workload is mostly outside the home, we’ve been urbanized, and there frankly isn’t that much domestic work to do anymore thanks to all the advances. But people bought this idea, and they sell what they’ve bought. Even polygamy, as repugnant as I find that, allowed more women to have professions outside the home – that was part of the package deal. The notion that this is some eternal principle (women at home, men out in the workplace) is revisionist history.
You are totally right. I heard a podcast once from a former adviser to President Bush, and he talked a little about the history of women working. He said that the idea of women staying home was engineered by the income tax structure and supported culturally because the national economy couldn’t afford both genders in the workplace.
The same culture also told fathers that their primary role was breadwinner and administrator, and as long as they did that, their children didn’t need them emotionally, let the women take care of that.
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So…either she apologize and clarifies….or the statement stands…and the doctrine is set.The church released a statement that clarified that doctrine is not set by the comments of one general authority in one talk, but by what is taught consistently over time. I think that statement was released specifically because there are occasions like this.
So I decided to do FHE on the first vision as well. I started having everyone write an account of a hike that had been particularly memorable the summer before last (we ended up spending the night sleeping in a ditch). Then we all read our accounts and compared them to each other, and noted how every account left out and included things that the other’s did not.
I then talked about the fact that there are different accounts of the First Vision, and in every account Joseph Smith left out and included things that at other times he did not.
I wasn’t going to bring up the fact that some of the accounts talk about Moroni visiting, until my youngest said: “I forget which one the first vision is, is that the one when Moroni came?” My daughter said, “No, that is the one when Heavenly Father and Jesus came”. I corrected them and said sometimes Joseph Smith did say that Moroni came. That was news to everyone except me, but hopefully lays the groundwork so that when my children hear it again, it won’t be a shock.
I then asked them to talk about what important lessons we can learn from the first vision.
Threads do take on a life of their own. For instance, my intent in starting this thread was not to talk about white shirts in particular, but to discuss how conforming to one style of dress makes it difficult to express oneself, and to learn more about others. In every society the clothing and jewelry are consciously used to convey information to the other members of the society. By having so many unwritten standards in the church, we make individual expression difficult.
The speaker pointed out that it also makes it more difficult to get to know each other.
I came away from the talk reminded that because we all look similar because of the cultural expectations of the church, we need to make more of an effort to get to know people, and not assume that because they look like me they are like me.
However, I didn’t express that well, either in the title or my original post.
The thread went where it did. This is the internet, that happens.
My husband always argued you could make it shorter by having a beginners and experienced version. If you cut out all the explaining things (details on how to do stuff) it would save quite a lot of time.
Quote:Have you seen M Night Shyamalan’s ‘The Village?’ I feel like that sometimes.
I love that movie. Yes the critics have a lot to criticize in it, but as a social commentary it hits so many things right on.
Quote:Rebeccad….I unfortunately do not think Dalton was speaking in the future, if she was she was implying that the new “virtuous” future women will know their place. I agree with you that it would be great if women could even get the small step of saying a prayer in GC.
In my heart I think that is what was she was saying.
In my heart of hearts I think that she can’t really believe that.
I have to understand her this way, otherwise I find it impossible to repress the urge to send her a nasty note encoded in math equations. Surely she can’t be telling a women that they don’t need rights, how could anyone who has traveled and met as many women as she has, and has some authority over them possibly say that.
The very same people who are good sometimes are the very same people who are bad sometimes. Now where have I read that before?
Quote:My wife was concerned that might mean that she was on the hook to give the closing prayer (it didn’t).
I have heard that the Handbook advises not to ask men and women to pray in the same meeting.
Quote:You will understand your roles and your responsibilities and thus will see no need to lobby for rights.
I heard someone interpret this to be significant because it was in the future tense. In the future Young Women will not need to lobby for rights because they will have the roles and responsibilities that God intended for them. Hopefully that future will come soon, but it is not here yet.
