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This was very interesting to read mercyngrace. I can see your argument on how rituals can be turned into idols. A few weeks ago I was in a Gospel Doctrine class and it was on Abinadi’s visit to King Noah’s people. I began to consider this may be a lesson for the present day church because I feel people place the upmost importance on ordinances and rituals. I sometimes think people may lose sight on what really matters which is Christ. I do also like what Ray said as well. I am comfortable with not understanding and knowing I may never understand. As I do my best to figure things out it is best to keep my mind open to the possibilities. HSAB, I too am on a road to recovery from an eating disorder. I have managed to maintain my weight restoration for the past year and a half. The garments are pretty triggering for me as well. I feel self conscious about the way I look and it certainly does not help having two waist lines. For me I keep wearing the garments mainly because I like the symbolism. I also find it really comforting to wear the garments. I was endowed during the worst point of my eating disorder and maybe the garments had nothing to do with it but I found some protection while I was trying to get myself out of hell. Right now I keep wearing the garments mainly because of habit and because for me I know that I need to keep doing uncomfortable things that are triggering in order to achieve a full recovery. I am not sure if this was helpful, but if you have any other questions for me I would be happy to help you out.
Rumpole, Sorry if I am misunderstanding what you wrote. I was wondering what foundational claims of truth you were talking about and what aspects of Joseph Smith bother you? If you don’t feel comfortable going into detail then you can ignore my inquiry.
Quote:All I know is that I’ll never forget how I felt that day my daughter realized that no one in our “ward family” cared enough to notice she’d been gone for two weeks.
I couldn’t help but feel sadness around this statement. When I was in my first year of college I remember when I stopped going to church. I was in a really dark place working through really personal things. I’ll never forget when the relief society president (also the RA of the dorm I lived in and a friend of me and my roommates) told my other roommate how she was so worried about her because she wasn’t coming to church. I couldn’t help but think while standing right there, “I haven’t been coming to church either. Do I not matter enough for you to be concerned about me?!”
I’m glad to hear your daughter was able to get to a better place. I have found that people are really bad at noticing things or they are too afraid to tell you how they really feel. I don’t remember who said it, but I definitely think those of us who have experienced this sad realization “I’m not noticed” can do better to notice those who may easily slip under the radar.
Thanks Ray for this post I really enjoyed it. As someone who has been working on eating disorder recovery I have come to greatly believe in this idea: Quote:As I wrote in a post last year, we understand the concept of accountability as it relates to the “extremes” (children and the mentally handicapped on one end; “fully accountable” adults on the other end), but we often overlook it when dealing with the “emotionally handicapped” and the “abused” and any others whose thoughts and actions are influenced by things they didn’t choose – things often outside their full control. We are learning more and more about how to treat these things, but I believe there are still so many manifestations of these types of issues that we haven’t even identified completely that “Judge not” becomes an even more vital command.
There are some things I have done while I was struggling with an eating disorder that I am not proud of. When I was working with that one bishop that made my life a living a hell he said, “It doesn’t matter that you were abused and are struggling with this disorder.” I thought that was so ridiculous. How could God hold me up to the same standard as other people who had not been hurt like I had?” I think if God were to hold any of us to the same standard then he/she/it is not God. We are all so different in our understandings, perceptions, schemas, paradigms etc. We have all been shaped by our biology and environment so differently. If I as a human can see how ridiculous it would be to hold ourselves to a gold standard then God in his infinite wisdom should be able to see it too.
I also appreciated your thoughts on the “final judgment.” I have some similar abstract thoughts on how we are all going through a perpetual judgment each and every day. I really hope that this “judgment” is how you described. The idea of my life being laid out to be scrutinized and picked a part really causes my stomach to roll with anxiety. In all reality how would it be fair to designate a specific time for judgement, “All right everyone we are lining up for judgement so you better be ready!” How would that be fair for everyone to be judged at one point in time? It would be as ridiculous as holding everyone to the same standards. I’m not sure what I described really made sense. Thanks again for your thoughts. I really appreciated them
Quote:To look oneself in the mirror and see “I AM” is to encounter the living Christ.
If I come to know my own divine nature then I come to know god.
Great stuff Brian
I’ve never considered this before. This may explain why it has been even more difficult for me to even believe God exists. Thanks Wayfarer and Brian for the thought.
As a person who is working in mental health I find this ideology, “God will never give you more than you can handle” stupid. I have seen people fall to their knees and not be able to get back up. People kills themselves, hurt their children, fall into horrible addictions, have severe disabilities etc. At this time I really don’t believe God gives us trials. I think life just happens. I would hope on some level God plays a more active role than I know in helping us through the struggles we encounter. Quote:To add one more point:
I could write an “abridged” history of WWII. I don’t know that much about all the specific names, dates and places for battles. But I know the general history. I can assure you that my “abridged” story about WWII in Europe would be a disaster if an alien landed in a flying saucer 5,000 years from now and found my book. They would look at my descriptions of the battles, the names and places; look at a topographical map of Europe, and come to the conclusion that I made the whole thing up.
That’s a little more extreme of an example, but along the lines of what I was saying about Mormon creating a “reader’s digest,” mythic version of the small and large plates of Nephi. Unless of course you absolutely hold fast to the notion that prophets are human fax machines for God — that an error can never happen. That doesn’t seem to pan out too good though when looking at all other “Holy Books” out there (the Bible in particular).
Thanks Brian for your explanation of the BoM. I found this to be really a helpful way of looking at the book. I have been struggling with how to view the book. I am still struggling with throwing out the black and white thought of, “It’s either all true or the biggest fraud.” When you really look at it the book was never meant to be a history textbook. It is meant to provide inspiration. Although I find that it mainly inspires me to be angry at this time
😆 First of all I would like to offer my sympathies that your son is struggling with anxiety. It can be so difficult and debilitating. Missions are very tough on those sorts of issues. The advice I offer is to help your son remember that the opinions and judgments of others are things he cannot control. It is none of their business why he did not complete a mission unless he decides to share his reasons. All that matters is his relationship with himself and with God. If your son finds the environment at church so toxic he does not want to continue attending I would encourage him to try going to church elsewhere. It is a sad thing that church is not the supportive environment Christ may have intended it to be. I mean I thought our baptismal covenants were to bear one another’s burdens? I guess it sometimes happens and sometimes it does not. I hope things work out for you, your family, and your son. I will be sending good vibes your way. I cannot say with complete surety that God or some high power answers prayers or how it works. I will say that for many months I have been struggling with a religious crisis. In my heart I asked to find something that could help me with my shaken views. I was at a seminar for Acceptance Commitment Therapy. This sparked a conversation with the guest speaker about religion which led me to a site called mormonstories.org. I then happened to see some talk by some guy and about some support site he set up. I looked at the site and I finally had found what I was looking for. Could it be a coincidence or just a matter of time I found this place? Probably. But all of that happened with a space of an afternoon. I just happened to talk to the right person at the right time about the right topic and happened to find a talk out of hundreds on a site that led me here. I thanked God/Universe for the right things to happen so I could get some help. I’ve always found this ideology of “you can only be blessed by doing what the church says God wants” to be really annoying. I think we can always be blessed by God, but when we are acting in a way that is detrimental to ourselves or others we have moved ourselves into a place which makes it difficult to be connected with God or whatever you want to call that higher power. I don’t think God ever leaves us, but we leave him. Even though we make the choice of leaving I still think God tries to help us any chance he gets. I believe that because of my experiences with an eating disorder. I walled myself in and kept anything that could help me away. I didn’t want to get better. Even through all my stubbornness I can see instances as I look back on my experience where some unforeseen hand kept me from destroying myself. Quote:Personally, I think confessing supposed sins to priesthood leaders is usually a bad idea. It looks like the general idea behind confession and exaggerated guilt-trips like “The Miracle of Forgiveness” is basically that feeling terrible about “sins” is supposedly an important part of real repentance and theoretically the worse you feel about it the less likely you will be to repeat the same “sin” again so then you will hopefully be permanently cured and the painful repentance process will supposedly end up being worth it.
I may be wrong, but from what I understand about current research is the more negative we feel about mistakes me make the more likelihood we have of repeating those mistakes over and over again. When I stopped caring so much about the “protocol” for repentance and just did the best I could I realized I was struggling less and less with things and was happier. I really believe in this therapy called Acceptance Commitment Therapy which has a lot of research backing it up. The more we focus on a problem the more we will probably dig ourselves in a hole. When we live what we value and focus on living life our problems tend to disappear.
Thanks Wayfarer I appreciated your post. This is something I really struggled with right before I got married, “Oh great I may have went too far with my fiance, does this require a bishop visit?” I became so freaked out by this whole concept I got really sick. I became so obsessed with making sure I did not slip up in the slightest that I began to really hurt myself to ensure I would feel so awful I would not have any desire to mess up. It is all so confusing because I am to a point where I think, “Why would God ask me to further punish myself when what I feel is punishment enough?” However, part of me wonders if I am one of those people the church talks about that makes things convenient for themselves and they will be punished in the after life…it’s all so confusing to me.
