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mackay11 wrote:Reflexzero wrote:
Ours was a regurgitation of Elder Oaks talk on priesthood authority from April conference.
For Mother’s day?
Mom3… I laughed out loud at the warriors’ girlfriends story. I’m glad you were able to smile about it.
Yes. Specifically the part about who gets ordained and who doesn’t. It was a nice touch.
We had Easter briefly mentioned during two of the four talks, in passing. I fear organizational wants and institutional needs outrank spiritual nourishment. There certainly was no exuberance in singing hymns, just a few dirges. Too bad. When the last speaker was done a few younger kids audibly shouted “yay!” But then the bishop arose and said a few more words, unrelated to the special day. Old-Timer wrote:Why wouldn’t the stuff behind the “Staff Only” doors be regular, fairly cheap stuff? It’s not part of the worship portion of the building. It’s offices and operational stuff.
I know I don’t want gold-plated toilets – or luxury desks in the Temple President’s office.
Well I don’t expect it to be all shining in the backup generator room, but it certainly takes away the mystery. I guess I can liken it to a movie set or Disney World, a carefully crafted illusion of reality.
Pitting anecdotal stories of “Some GA’s” vs “..multiple conversations with GA’s and smart people..” isn’t productive. While it is possible that 1/3 has been abandoned, observable trends in executive orders of the church indicate it will throw enormous resources at lost causes. On the other hand, there hasn’t been a demonstration of clear and direct (JSPP and Apologetics is not clear and direct) efforts to solvethe historical problems. For example we get letters from executive on who and how to marry on church property, or if primary kids should share testimonies in sacrament meeting. We haven’t had a booklet or letter down to the local level on “how to deal with mild apostates and other lukewarm members.”
We must wait for more concrete and testable evidence from either side of this argument, rather than anecdotes.
nibbler wrote:I’ve mentioned this before, I feel strongly about it, I’d love to see a special program at the stake level. Classes for doubters taught by doubters that have found a reason to stay LDS. The problem is that no one would want to come forward, not to teach it, not to attend; there’s simply too much stigma attached to being a doubter in the church. Still I think it would be nice to reach out to the doubter with people that can truly empathize with them, a fellow doubter.
This would be nice, but would hinge on local leaders being willing to gather doubters together. In my experience, which is local only, they don’t want doubters to talk to anyone else. Plus they wouldn’t have anything new under the sun, to say.
Bodybuilder Ronnie Coleman put it best: if you do what you always done, you get what you always got.For better, or worse.
Cadence wrote:Actually IMHO temples are about the most colossal waste of money I can think of a church could do. An entire building with limited access that serves one function. And to boot it is all high end stuff that goes into it.
I was amazed at how cheap feeling the (modern) temple buildings are behind the mostly pretty stone facade and expensive looking (sure is a lot of veneer) interior trim work. Once you pass the ‘staff only’ doors it’s just like the underpinnings of any modern commercial building. Pipes and dirt and vinyl floors. Sort of a metaphor of the modern church I guess.
Lots of veneer. Surprising amounts of veneer. But they look nice from a distance.
Cadence wrote:And that is the problem. Members believe they belong to a church but in reality they are no more than paying customers. The only vote they have is with their feet.
When you look at it this way it is surprising retention rate is not lower than it already is.
Right. Another example is the centralized curriculum. It is your responsibility to find meaning or relevance in the curriculum, because the curriculum is designed to support the Church. The content and quanlity of the lesson material has no direct relationship to how much you learned or enjoyed the lesson in Sunday school. You will have that same lesson again in 4 years.
The truth is, since the original church corporation was dissolved in 1890 by the US Supreme Court upholding the Edmunds Tucker act, Church leadership does not have any accountability to the membership. In the old church, you were a voting member, common consent meant something, and if you were a bishop you held property in the church. Now, in the new version of the church, you are basically a customer or patron, and everything belongs to and is managed by the COB. Well I wouldn’t get too wound up about it. The WOW admonishes us that mild barley drinks are good for us. The same WOW promises us hidden treasures of knowledge and health. The Church on the other hand forbids that which God has declared good, such as Wine for Sacraments and Beer for our bellies. So I suppose it depends on where your loyalties are. I think the scriptures tell an interesting story about booze. A lot of trouble comes from drunken people in the scripture stories, and on occasion the people of God use booze to accomplish some purpose by getting people drunk. So I think overdoing it is the problem, but the substance itself is not evil. An inanimate object is not capable of choosing or being evil, but we sure love to associate it with evil. The vanilla in your pantry is mostly booze, and no one in the church complains about that.
If men all over the church were to suddenly renounce their priesthood and priesthood duties, but keep attending meetings and classes, would they still be appreciated for their divine worth as sons of god from the pulpit at general conference? Would they be told that they are appreciated for being such sweet men? Would they be told they are equal in all things? The issue with satan and evil in LDS theology is the chicken and the egg. The plan of salvation requires an evil chicken, but at the time of discussion of the plan of salvation, Lucifer was still an egg.
But someone had to be the chicken. Was it just assumed that one egg would willingly be the chicken?
Did the farmer plan for there to be bad eggs, or was it just a 33% probability of being a bad egg in the egg farm?
In either case, if the evil chicken simply refused to cooperate with the farmer by not influencing the good eggs, the plan wouldn’t work, so the chicken has to be in league with the farmer. In essence, the chicken isn’t evil, but is being compelled to act the part of evil. But anyone who has actually raised chickens knows they are actually pretty stupid. A stupid chicken would think that it could fight against the creator of the universe and win, while a smart chicken would adopt a zen philosophy and do nothing.
If there have been 100 billion people born (good eggs) on the planet, that means there are at least 50 billion bad eggs trying to influence us. At today’s rate, that means that there are 7 bad eggs allocated to tormenting you in your daily life. As an aside, that means Adam and Eve would have each had at least 25 billion bad eggs tormenting them. In essence the world becomes less evil over time, as there are too few bad eggs to go round.
Sunday night is family movie night in our home theater with theater popcorn. We all take turns each week picking the movie. The kids like board games, card games, and table top games so we try to play those from time to time. No tv during dinner, and video games come with a timer, and are only allowed certain days of the week. Wifi for the kids shuts off at bed time.
We have lots of books and outdoor games as well, such as bola ball that they really like.
Sometimes they complain or whine a bit, but it never lasts long, and I have no feelings of guilt whatsoever from a child pouting.
I wonder how much relation or evolution there is from the spirits in Joseph’s day that were called upon to discover hidden treasure to the spirit now being used to “…find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures”
