[richalger]

Thank you to everyone on this thread. I probably do not agree with much of the people in this forum about almost everything. But I do appreciate hearing other perspectives. I love the list Neil deGrasse Tyson gave us to discover truth. (http://richalger.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-opening-scene-of-cosmos-spacetime.html )

– Test ideas by experimentation and observation

– Build on those ideas that pass the test

– Reject the ones that fail

– Follow the evidence wherever is leads.

– Question everything

If you are sure to include the kind of experimentation that Alma urges, this list it a great one. We might add, be civil in our interactions. When we doubt the good faith of our neighbors, progress stops.

[richalger]

Old-Timer wrote:

I agree with most things you write and say, Hawkgrrrl, but I have never disagreed more strongly with you than I do in this case. I appreciate the attempt at clarification in the follow-up comment (very few, in your opinion, and the comparison to clams – as well as the use of “steeped” and “tools, which I see as very, very different things), but the first statement is WAY too broad for me.

Serious question, focused on the first statement:

Isn’t kicking a whole group of women out of womanhood for supporting a system in which they are comfortable the very antithesis of a core principle of feminism? It’s one thing to say they are deceived or deluded or working against female interests generally (that they aren’t feminist and don’t understand feminism), but it’s another thing entirely to say they are no longer or not legitimately women.

It’s especially ironic, imo, that such a statement is being asserted in a thread alongside statements opposing excommunication from a group (the LDS Church) that is MUCH smaller than the group (women) from which they are being excommunicated, figuratively, by the comment. Kate Kelly MIGHT be excommunicated from the LDS Church, so those who don’t support her should be excommunicated / excluded from womanhood?

I disagree.

I agree

[richalger]

Shawn wrote:

I think those who are only asking questions don’t need to worry about being disciplined. KATE KELLY WENT WAY BEYOND ASKING QUESTIONS. She:

1. Founded an organization

2. With teachings that are not in line with church’s teachings

3. That seeks to recruit followers

Quote:

Today, Sunday, 17 March 2013, is the 171st anniversary of the establishment of the first Relief Society. In the Relief Society minutes, we read that Joseph Smith said that the Relief Society would be a “Kingdom of Priests.” He also literally ordained its first female leaders. In the same minutes, Emma Smith is described as being set apart but not ordained, with an explanation by Joseph Smith that Emma had already been ordained and therefore did not need to be ordained again, but merely set apart for this particular calling. Joseph Smith described the Relief Society as one that would be analogous to the male priesthood organization. We wish to mark this significant day in history with our own act, and the founding of another women’s organization: Ordain Women…

In a church that cherishes the value of restoration, we hope to encourage our leaders to restore women to their rightful place as leaders and priesthood holders. Ordain Women is committed to making our faith a place where we can live up to our full divine potential, and we believe that the only way women will be able to have genuine equality and live up to this potential is by being able to be ordained to the priesthood.

…We ask the brethren to bring to fruition our beloved prophet Joseph Smith’s original vision for the Relief Society sisters to over 7 million female members of the church today. We ask that women be ordained and participate fully in all levels of service within the church….

Join us, as equality missionaries, in making our plea heard.

–http://ordainwomen.org/organizing-the-women-after-the-manner-of-the-priesthood-2/

I highlighted the words about founding an organization and seeking recruits. Some teachings I see that are not in line with church teachings are:

-Emma Smith was ordained to a priesthood office.

-It is their right to hold the priesthood.

-Women cannot be considered equal until they are ordained to the priesthood.

-Joseph Smith intended for women to hold the priesthood.

*I am not saying I agree or disagree with those teachings. They are things that appear to me to be not in line with church teachings.*

I agree

[richalger]

shoshin wrote:

The news about these possible excommunications is a distraction, like most of these “controversies” are. The things that matter are: Am I becoming more like Christ?

Ditto.

[richalger]

shoshin wrote:

I would like to re-iterate my opinion that there is a big difference between privately and publicly disagreeing with church leaders.

I agree with this. I do not know what the outcome of all these councils will be. I just hope that Godly discernment and an overflowing of charity are known and felt.

[richalger]

Here is my story. It is a great idea us to put a link to it in our signatures.

Thanks for sharing.

[richalger]

Old-Timer wrote:

I believe in worthiness and unworthiness.

I just don’t believe in how they are commonly used and applied in our culture.

What do you believe about worthiness and unworthiness?

[richalger]

Thanks Ray

[richalger]

I used the word better. It was this quote that prompt me to start this thread.

InquiringMind wrote:

I think that the story of the Fall is more powerful as a myth and a metaphor than as a literal historical story.

Why can a myth be more powerful than a literal account?

A side question might be: Is it only my belief in Jesus that heals me or is there actual power from an actual Heavenly Being that heals me?

[richalger]

Is it important that Jesus literally had the ability to heal the blind, or is it OK for you to have everything be symbolic?

[richalger]

Old-Timer wrote:

life is about progression, not just salvation.

If one is not progressing, they are not saved. Damnation is the opposite and it is about stopping progress.

It is an important point in that is we choose stop our progression we are choosing to damn ourselves.

[richalger]

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. It is heartening to me.

Thank you also for the quote from Pres Benson.

mackay11 wrote:

In a 1977 devotional, Ezra Taft Benson lists the covenants made in the temple as: “the law of obedience and sacrifice, the law of the gospel, the law of chastity, and the law of consecration.”

I had looked for this before.

[richalger]

Thanks for all the feedback.

[richalger]

Thanks everyone.

[richalger]

science_saint wrote:

Teach the actual consequences of sexual behavior. Not just the mystical justification. I know this requires the average person to read more books and it takes time, but these are our kids, right?

Here is a video that does teach part of the actual consequences of sexual behavior. Also how technology has changed these consequences in major ways.

http://www.austin-institute.org/ai-research-animates/” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.austin-institute.org/ai-research-animates/

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