[Rix]

GREAT responses so far…what a brilliant group here!

I agree that it may be helpful to view your local leaders (and all the church leaders, IMO) as doing the best they can with what they’ve been given. Right or wrong, the church is mostly run by non-professionals…and there ain’t alotta training! Yes, they do the best to be inspired in their work, but that “connection” is not always perfect.

I like to approach life with two simple principles:

First, I am 100% responsible for my life. Nobody else has the power to change me — it’s completely up to me. Very Dr. Phil, I know!

Second, I have no expectations of others. Zip, Zero, Nada! Whatever I get from somebody else is a gift.

With this approach, it is difficult to be a victim. One way to look at it is that my life is completely between God and me. Of course support is helpful, but as soon as I expect somebody else to behave a certain way, I’m setting myself up for frustration.

So with that attitude, you can look at church from an angle of “does it work for me?” Am I spiritually uplifted by attending? Do the service opportunities give me purpose and meaning? Is the social structure something I enjoy? If it is a net plus, maybe it’s worth working through the issues.

~Rix

[Rix]

Heber13 wrote:

Anyone else have experiences where nature provides a spirituality and a closeness to something mystical? If so, please share.

I mentioned on Steve’s intro that for me, it was a Sunday in the mountains that brought me a spirituality I felt was much better for methan church. It was a turning point in my spiritual journey, and I’ve since spent much time analyzing why that is for me.

First, I think to a degree “spirituality” is hormonal. When we get the right combo of seratonin, dopamine, and other endorphins, we feel “good.” Our mind is clear, we are stimulated by the aerobic nature of the hike, and the beauties of nature give us a natural gratitude for our existence. I agree with others that additionally, it allows us to forget our normal stresses of work, etc…by focusing on the simpleness of nature. It is hard to feel the pressures of life when you are away from the sounds of the phone, TV, and the constant negativity of the media. I also think the clean, crisp air cleanses us too.

I literally have my church in the mountains every week. I take a half day and usually go to one of the lakes up our Cottonwood Canyons. Yesterday I went to Lake Blanche. The wildflowers were in full bloom and more stunning than I’ve ever seen them on the Mill B trail there. I take 20-30 minutes to eat a snack at the lake before I head back down. The meditation time is very relaxing and quieting to my soul. I find myself quite upbeat the rest of the day — even after getting back to “normal life.”

Many might not call this “spiritual,” as “God” is not mentioned. I believe that whatever/whomever God is, “He” is intimately involved in all of nature’s creations…so I see it as stepping outside the traditional box to find spirit there.

At least that’s how I see it today.

~Rix

[Rix]

Hi Wendell…I’m sure many of us can relate to some or most of your issues. I’ll tell you that I am a physician (not a psychiatrist), and for about 5 years I was a drug and alcohol counselor. I only tell you this to let you know that I have met many like you, and I’m going to say some things that some here might disagree with. That’s Okay…it’s just my opinion and experience.

1) It sounds to me like you have clinical depression. Of course none of us armchair shrinks can give you a definitive diagnosis, but if you do, I believe appropriate treatment may help MANY of your other issues. I strongly suggest getting professional help. Everybody in your life will benefit with you getting well.

2) You are juggling WAY too many balls. It’s a common challenge in the church to push for perfectionism in the family…and it seems much of your guilt is in unrealistic expectations. And personally, I find guilt to be a horrible motivator. With a good therapist, I think you can prioritize your goals and acitvities to allow you to reduce the stress.

3) I agree that you probably are not in a good place to evaluate and make decisions about your marriage. However, I will also say that it is helpful to realize that divorce isn’t terminal…depression, chemical dependence, and suicide can be. This is where I tend to go against what many church leaders say…but you have to put yourself first. You’re no good to anybody else in the unhealthy state you are in. Again, work with a good therapist to get yourself back. I think the approach to work on the marriage must come after you get healthy.

4) The common advice in the church is to read scriptures, pray, and attend your meetings. If that works for you, great. I found that low level exercise, hiking, being in nature, was much more helpful for me to find “Spirit.” It was only after I de-junked my life that I could even begin to think about religion. But that might just be me.

Good luck, and I think you can benefit from advice that has been given here.

~Rix

[Rix]

wordsleuth23 wrote:

swimordie wrote:

Thanks for the reply. I hope to find myself where you are at, at some point. I want to go to Church and possibly benefit; I want to go to Church and not be driven crazy. Until my dad showed this website–2 days ago–I had stopped being consumed by Mormonism for the most part. I have been consumed by a drive for knowledge, reading everything related to religion–philosophy, neuroscience, anthropology, sociology–that I can get my hands on, but I had stopped reading anything directly related to Mormonism. My frustrations did dampen some when I stopped studying so much, but they flare up when a particularly bad lesson is given, or comments are made that deplore science/knowledge. I admire your ability to change; finding a way to cope with church is something I hope to gain from this website. It’s too bad that we can’t all be in the same ward; I think Church would be a lot more fun that way.

Hi Steve (Btw, I got your PM…loved it and will respond tomorrow); I agree, we should form our own ward. Wouldn’t that be a blast! I would even look forward to attending! But I insist on wine for the “only true” sacrament. Lol!

Oh I can relate to the being “driven crazy” process. There was a time that after “learning” what I did, I continued attending with the subtle intention of changing the church from within. Al my friends and family were attending, so it all made sense. But like you, I dreaded hearing the lessons and talks that I felt were “just not true.”

I had begun hiking in the Cottonwood Canyons fairly regularly, and decided one Sunday to hike for 3 hours, then get home when the fam did (from church) in time for dinner. As we sat at the table, it was clear to me that my three hours in the mountain were much more uplifting and spiritual than what they had experienced. For me, it was a sign. Besides my son’s farewell and homecoming meetings, that was the last time I have attended.

Others here have taken a different path for them, and I respect that. For me, it was clear I found spirituality in places other than a meeting house. It had consequences, but I still believe 10 years later it was the right choice for me.

Good luck finding yours!

~Rix

[Rix]

Tom Haws wrote:

I am a spark of God. In me, God is a man. To God I will return. Thus the Father will be again glorified. As I now am, God now is. As God now is, I now am. Division is illusion, and all is one.

Wow, that’s beautiful! I agree completely!

[Rix]

Tom Haws wrote:

Rix wrote:

The BIG picture of religions show a tainted past of mass control, political battles, and of course much human suffering.

I think the big picture of religions also shows a common global root of spiritual inspiration. In my experience, it hasn’t been hard to get at that root once I put anger, fear, and insistence at bay for a while. Revelation is today. God works today, revealing many important things (pertaining to the Kingdom of God?).

I agree with this. When I wrote what I did, I was particularly referring to the inquisitions and other mass murders “in the name of God” (although I’m sure the MMM would approach the LDS version of a tainted past that way for some).

And I am a huge fan of living in the moment. I think Eckhart Tolle does a marvelous job of teaching this (Power of Now, The New Earth…). It does seem that the more we focus on the past (and worrying about the future), the more stressed we get!

[Rix]

Thank you Steve for your story. The responses thus far are also very enlightening to me. It seems we all have some serious questions and concerns about church history and doctrine…and each of us is dealing with it in our own way. I would encourage you to get to the place where other journeys don’t have to be yours. You may stay active with a new attitude like many here have…or you may find more peace in leaving. The point is it has to be your decision, and ultimately you do it for yourself.

I think it is natural for the LDS church (and most other faiths) to attempt to homogenize the members. It’s easier that way. Perhaps that’s why the “taught” history is so clean and devoid of problems. But with the internet today, we can learn many things that are troubling. It forces us to seek a new paradigm for our faith…and our life. For most, there is a stage of anger and depression. It’s not a good place, but sometimes necessary to eventually find a path that brings peace to your soul.

You said some things that make great sense. Science is showing that many claims in the church — and most other churches — are not true…at least in the literal sense. We tend to feel betrayed and lied to. And it often leaves us with serious questions about how to live your life now, knowing what you know now. At least that’s how I felt.

Along the way for me, at least, I came to believe that all religions had questionable claims. After studying Joseph Campbell’s work, it started making sense. The BIG picture of religions show a tainted past of mass control, political battles, and of course much human suffering. It’s really only in the last few centuries that most “members” have had the chance and ability to study their church’ history. So we are bound to have dramatic changes in doctrines and claims. I’ve seen other religions drastically change their claims due to new discoveries. Some would say the LDS church has too.

The point I am trying to make is the process is all natural. I view most church leaders as doing the best they can with what they have been given. I see my parents the same way. I bless them for giving me the great life I have today. I see the church today as a powerful social and spiritual culture. There are very few other institutions that take care of their own so well. That’s a huge positive.

I also see the possibility that “God” may be very different than what has been taught. Today I believe that the God I grew up with was created by man, with man’s way of thinking and behaving…albeit allegedly perfect and consistent with our logic. I see how that evolved.

Today I view spirituality as the process of becoming comfortable with ourselves in the universe. I see it as growing our souls to an attitude of equality with others and all that is around us. That can be done in a church, in nature, or perhaps deep meditation. It doesn’t matter where you find it for you.

So, sorry for the long ramble, consider the possibility that each path is good. Some find great satisfaction in the LDS church, and if they do, there are certainly worse ways to live! Good luck on your journey!

~Rix

[Rix]

Thank you all for the warm welcomes. I have read many of the intros, and can relate to all of them. When there is time, I will comment on many of them.

I’ve participated on other Mormon related sites, and find some helpful, but there is so much malice and anger on both sides. I understand it is part of the journey, but I appreciate the friendly tone of this forum…and hope to have supportive discussions here.

Thanks again!

[Author]

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