Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
hawkgrrrl wrote:
We were in a ward about 15 years ago where one of the guys in the bishopric was huge on stockpiling guns and ammo in anticipation of the zombie apocalypse or to kill off his less prepared neighbors I suppose and make jerky out of them or something. It seems like an absolutely unchristian and terrible idea to stockpile guns. If people want my stuff that bad, they can have it.
Yes – I have the same sentiment. Killing my neighbor because they are starving and want some of my food just doesn’t sound Christlike to me. I couldn’t do it. And if I could, everyone would find out about it and seek revenge and take my food (and life) anyways. Because of this, my food storage is in case of unemployment and to help me and my neighbors in the event of a natural disaster. I’m betting we eventually hear about some church member in New Jersey or New York who helped neighbors with some of his/her year supply in the aftermath of hurricane Sandy.
Dear mackay11, Thanks for this post, I appreciate your honesty and how you organize your thoughts into knowledge, belief, and hope. That looks like a good exercise for me to go through also. Your comment about not patronizing yourself and not denying your own experiences really resonated with me. I’ve had a few deeply moving, spiritual experiences that I can’t deny and can’t explain yet, but when I hear about other people having similar experiences I’m skeptical. I don’t have much else to add because I feel much the same way you do, and was uplifted by you.
On another note, I may ask for the collection of essays for Christmas.
Like others have said, I struggle when small children have to be told what to say or when they breathe heavily or start giggling. When a teacher uses peer pressure to get children to bear testimonies it troubles me. However, generally I don’t have a problem with children standing up in church and saying what they know the church is true, etc and often I find it refreshing. I see them as a person someone on the continuum of faith. Last Sunday a woman stood up and spoke to the congregation for 5 minutes about her uterus and how details of her health challenges strengthened her testimony. I know the bishop was deeply uncomfortable as were probably 90% of the congregation, but to this woman it was a meaningful experience. The comparison to children isn’t perfect, but testimony bearing is one of the quirks of Mormonism, and as long as there is public bearing of testimonies there will be moments of inspiration, randomness, childishness, and downright foolishness.
My stake still talks a fair amount about year supplies and I usually feel it’s a good idea, but frankly I’ve interpreted a year supply to mean we should be as financially independent as possible in case of job loss and natural disasters. That being said, the year supply council presents a challenge for me for a few reasons.
• Assuming a wide-spread / regional disaster I can’t figure out if I’m supposed to share my year supply with others. If so then my year supply will turn into about a 72 hour supply because I live in an area where there are few LDS. I think it would be difficult for me to turn away others who need food. This provides a disincentive for me to have a year supply for anything but job-loss related reasons.
• A year supply isn’t much good without fuel. I’m dependent to a large degree on natural gas and electricity to use my year supply.
• You can’t live on more than a few days without water, and even giant water barrels wouldn’t keep my family of 6 alive for long.
• Am I supposed to have a gun to protect my family. This seems to be an unwritten or assumed part of a year supply. Or at least it seems like justification for owning a small arsenal. I own a couple of guns, and I sort of get it, but the implications of protecting your year supply seem extremely undesirable at worst and counter-productive at best.
• Hoarding food is inefficient from a financial, economic, and social point of view.
• Having a year supply of cash (in a bank) is much more efficient, unless you believe the US government is doomed to collapse or that hyper inflation will destroy the value of your cash.
• As noted above, space is a big deal for many members of the church. Also, many members of the church, especially in poorer areas, wonder about where tomorrow’s meal will come from let alone next year’s meals.
Despite those challenges, I mostly have a year supply. As a very positive result of having unprocessed grains, I think my family eats pretty healthy because we use lots of whole grains and cook from scratch.
Momto11 – hang in there. You’re doing a good thing by commenting and giving heartfelt, true-to-yourself responses. My guess is that there are more people that appreciate your responses than you know. I hope you continue to participate and hold the teachers feet to the fire. It’s difficult for me to correct teachers, and it probably is for most of us. I’ve found that if I can state something in a well reasoned, non-emotional way (even though my heart is pounding and I want to yell) that people sometimes respond well. And sometimes they act like I didn’t say anything at all. I also try to keep in mind that the teacher is probably doing his or her best and is usually well intentioned, although that’s little consolation if the teaching is painful. Sometimes I also try to remind myself that as long as I go to church there will be speakers, teachers, and leaders that are ignorant. After all, nobody’s perfect and some are less perfect than others.
Depression in particular seems to be misunderstood in the church. My wife was diagnosed with depression and only after going through a visible marital rough patch did her mom decide to tell us that depression is prevalent in the family and that several people in the family are taking medication for it. My own parents told us we should basically grin and bear the depression so my wife wouldn’t have to take the meds. It all really upsets me and I feel for you. This type of teaching is completely out of place – and worse – is potentially dangerous. I’m glad you said something.
momto11 wrote:My daughter tells me that the church recently made an official statement saying that caffeine sodas were ok to drink
not that we didn’t drink them anyway, but I guess there has been so much misconception about them they finally made an official statement—-anyone else hear about this?My bishop asked me to investigate this about a month ago so I happen to have looked it up recently:
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-news–getting-it-right-august-29 About halfway down this press release there’s a statement about caffeine drinks not being covered in the WoW.
Thankful wrote:Next week I am supposed to create my own lesson (no manual) and have it be on spiritual self-reliance and faith. Ideas anyone?
I’m kind of inclined to mention that faith does not equal the absence of doubt, but is what makes it possible to move forward in the face of doubt. But I’m afraid that could lead into a discussion where I’d share something that would be a bad idea, hurt the girls, or socially “torpedo” myself in the ward (where I don’t have much social capital as is.)
This sounds like the basis of a potentially great lesson. Kids are smart and realize when a teacher is sincere and when they are merely going through the motions. You don’t have to go into depth about which things you struggle with, but you can say that you understand some things better than others. And if directly asked about what you struggle with you could leave it general but truthful. I’ve told the youth in my ward several times there are things about church history I just don’t get and I’ve said from the pulpit before that as a scientist I have difficulty reconciling certain things. But as you say – that’s what faith is – moving on in spite of your doubt.
Sounds like you’ll do a great job. You’re already doing lots simply by preparing a heartfelt lesson.
Apologies in advice for my soapbox… If the hymns are unmoving it’s probably a combination of difficult-to-change factors. Unsupportive bishopric and music chairmen, accompanist apathy or boredom, accompanist lack of training or experience, or a disengaged congregation. However most hymns can be “good” hymns and can be made enjoyable but it takes coordinated effort and thoughtfulness by all the parties listed above.
One issue that faces many musicians is that they are given too little prep time by leadership and many have that calling for literally decades and become complacent over time.
The Spirit of God is one of my favorites because I get to turn the volume up, use a fancy introduction, use a fanfare on the last verse, and use “full organ” on the last verse. I understand why Praise to the Man is disliked, but there are ways to make it more interesting also. Mack Wilberg’s arrangement of it for MOTAB is moving.
That being said there are a few hymns that I don’t enjoy as much as others. The sunshine hymns in the 220s and the Choose the Rights in the 230s are a bit repetitive and musically less interesting to me. In Our Lovely Deseret is trying.
My favorite hymns: The Morning Breaks, Guide Us O Thou Great Jehovah, All Creatures of Our God and King, A Mighty Fortress, How Firm a Foundation, most of the Christmas hymns. It’s true what’s been said above – there are many hidden treasures in the hymnbook.
Dear momto11, Perhaps you can make an appointment with your bishop / stake president and ask him to refer you to a licensed counselor. As was mentioned previously, few church leaders are qualified to be marriage counselors and I think leaders in some areas recognize that and often refer people to professional counselors and pay all or a portion of the bill. I know in my stake that bishops only see people once or twice before referring them to a marriage or other type of counselor.
Personal anecdote to share – at one point my wife and I were having difficulty in our marriage. My dad who was visiting from a long distance and while serving as bishop in that ward decided to play bishop and marriage counselor to me and my wife. It was well intended and not bad advice, but it was irrelevant advice. The doctor we went to was much more effective. He quickly determined my wife had postpartum depression, prescribed the appropriate medication,and told me to get up in the night with the baby, after which time our marriage improved gradually. I appreciate bishops and their good faith efforts, but you might be better off with a counselor, especially if the stake has the problems you describe.
Being an adoptee, I loved this – my blood literally turns into the same blood / genetics as my adopted family once I’m sealed. others: playing cards is evil, we were generals in the pre-earth life, and this is a new one where I live – if you can’t go inside the temple, take your family there to physically touch the outside walls.
Old-Timer wrote:roadrunner, just for the sake of precision, women
CANbe sealed to multiple men. After they die, they can be sealed to every husband they had in mortality – and it’s done regularly. Ray, thank you for the clarification / correction. I’m glad you pointed it out and of course you are correct. I actually think this backs up the point that the doctrine of polygamy – or its disavowal – could be made more clear. As it stands, one can conceivably believe that the church still endorses polygamy and possibly polyandry. However, I do not think that’s the intent of the church…
To further add to my post, a widower can be sealed to his wife(s) who have passed away and to one alive wife. That’s not the case for women who can be sealed to multiple husbands only after she and they have passed away.
wayfarer wrote:i remember the wife of my stake president shocked me by saying, “there are going to be a lot of surprises up there…”
i am convinced we have no clue as to what lies beyond.
Love this quote and fully believe it…
This may muddy the waters a little bit but it also may explain some things. Like was said in an earlier reply, it used to be taught but now isn’t. That is true, but in the interest of full disclosure: men can still be sealed to multiple women in the temple (if the 1st wife passed away) but women cannot be sealed to multiple men (if the 1st husband passed away).
The idea is probably a reminant of teachings from decades ago and my take is that the “brethren” tend to think it will all be sorted out in the hereafter. But it’s not unreasonable for members of the church to infer that polygamy is still ‘doctrinal’ given the contradictory positions of the official declarations vs. temple sealings today. I know a man sealed to two women who is quite pleased with himself because of it.
Having some of the same concerns as you, I’ve adopted the approach of thinking that the church needs people who are willing to do their duty while at the same time not blindly following our leaders. I think I can be of more service to my family and ward members by serving in a leadership calling and trying to have an open mind. If I refused or if the SP changed his mind based on my imperfect description of my questions then the next in line may be less able to serve in a loving, thoughtful way. In a very tangible way that could impact the experiences my family has. It may also depend on the SP or SP counselor who extends the calling. If I were a SP extending the calling of bishop for example, I would want the callee to re-evaluate themselves and say – you know I have to think about this. I know several bishops and EQP who have said they have to think about it first. Seems like an honest approach to me. I believe my SP would be supportive if I said “I need to gain my own testimony of this calling before I accept”. However, if I said it to the ex-military, very traditional counselor to the SP, he’d probably have a negative reaction.
Not that we have to tailor our responses to every single person and scenario, but I personally see no need to spill all my doubts to anyone besides my wife. The SP probably doesn’t have the time or knowledge to address something that’s deeply personal anyways. If you accept the premise that Heavenly Father is extending the calling to you, He undoubtably knows about your doubts and wants the calling to be extended to you. If it’s not quite that crystal clear and you believe there is a level of human influence while deciding who gets the calling, then it seems reasonable to have human doubts.
In my ward we have several elders who just attend with the HP and I think few people know they are not HP. Depending on your ward and your bishop, your husband might be able to simply attend with the HP no questions asked. I realize that not everyone is the same, but I avoid HP meetings whenever I can and I much prefer the EQ meetings. Granted I’m at the age that could fit in either group.
doug wrote:Welcome from a fellow agnostic deist.
Nice – a kindred spirit.
🙂 I find myself compartmentalizing my life sometimes. I know just enough science to interest me and get myself into trouble but the business side of me is all about results and practical application of a principle.
So… as a wannabe scientist I have to acknowledge the strong possibility of the universe existing because we won the cosmic lottery. As a person who looks up at the stars and considers the beauty of life I think “what a waste for all this to be here for naught.” That part of me really, really hopes there is a loving Heavenly Father.
