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I will post today and intro myself. I have a history on apologetic sites, and this one seems like a good choice. Most of the concerns i have are contemporary. I know about this excommunication stuff because I am an X-ed man myself. I am unusual in that I have a very tiny, yet slowly growing, desire to return.
Ann wrote:Gerald wrote:When I was younger and learned about excommunication, my perception was that it was the worst thing that could ever happen to you. I can remember picking up a book written by a member who had been excommunicated (for adultery) who described in the detail the spiritual torment that he went through. I assumed that anyone excommunicated would have that same experience. My ideas have changed now mainly because
I actually met individuals who had been excommunicated and the reality was that it was often a messy process that did not automatically result in spiritual upheaval and misery.
We’re meeting many more these days, so I can only hope that the option to excommunicate is used judiciously.The process of church discipline varies WILDLY from stake to stake, and ward to ward. Part of the process that is frustrating to me is when the word comes from higher up to take action against someone–to purge “fringe members”…and that is a whole nother topic.
You are correct that there are social morays that differed when I was younger. I remember, for example, reading SWK’s book “Miracle of Forgiveness”…and in that book, he says flat out the worst place someone could find themselves was excommunicated. Statements by Marion Romney and others even go so far as to say you would be better off dead than loosing your virtue. There are discussions in other forums about those statements and whether they cause more damage than good. I know of many where they have caused immense damage.
It does all come down to how much power you give those folks. When I was raised, for example, I was taught that the prophet spoke for God…PERIOD! So, if he said you were going to hell, or would be better off dead than morally unclean, it was reality. But, how does that make people feel who messed up? Enter TRAUMA….the whole process of excommunication for many is anything but a “court of love”. In fact, that phrase makes many quite angry.
Minyan Man wrote:I also remember a time when excommunications were announced to the Melchizedek PH on Sunday.
I don’t know exactly why. I’m not sure why it stopped.
I was aware of this happening as well. The reason it stopped was the stigma was to traumatic that the excommunicated member would often take their family with them, either a woman or a man. So, for example, suppose you have a man being exed. They make the general announcement. He feels like a total outcast,…massive shame and guilt following him around, so he isn’t coming back. Where does that leave his family?
Well, if dad isn’t going to church no more, and everyone knows why,…does mama feel all that comfortable? Nope. So, she stays away, and so much for the children.
The practice could be correlated to loosing the whole family–so it played into the policy of keeping it hushed and handling it in a confidential manner.
Old-Timer wrote:The person is removed from the active membership “rolls”, but their record is maintained in order to reactivate it upon re-baptism.
The process doesn’t lead to re-activation often enough, which points to a flaw in the application too often (and its validity in quite a few others), but the intent almost always is to provide a way back into full membership.
Hi folks. I’m a newbie, but very familiar with the blogging of such sites, and respectful of what is said.
When someone is exed, there are multiple records kept of the proceedings, including careful notes of the disciplinary council in the first place, as well as other logistical notes. The main membership record–the one you can see if you go into the clerks office and request to see your records–is removed. That is the official “name removal” process.
If you have a desire to return to activity through re-baptism, you will probably need to setup a meeting with your bishop, and he can request copies of your disciplinary council notes be sent. He will have access to those, but might be instructed (I think they are actually) to NOT show those to you (and I disagree with this policy). Through interviews and time, your bishop may recommend you for re-baptism. If at the stake level, he will have to talk with the SP who would have original jurisdiction.
Your re-baptism does NOT restore your temple blessings nor your priesthood if male. You have to wait a minimum of another year, and at that time, their is a formal petition process you engage in to request, from the First Presidency, to have your blessings restored. I believe, but am not sure, that the FP has delegated this review process to others to act in their place. However, unless someone at head quarters turns the key, nothing happens.
A letter is sent at that time to your SP (who handles this blessing restoration process) from head quarters. The SP is instructed to discuss the instructions from the FP with you, but again I believe they are told to NOT share that letter with your directly.
For those individuals who were excommunicated for moral transgressions, my understanding from speaking with many in this process, is they are usually told no: they are NOT given permission to have their blessings restored as they are to wait another year to see how they do. If the person continues in activity (and because they are re-baptised, they can often hold many different callings) they are allowed to petition again the next year. During this second petition process, the odds go up to probably over 50% chance they will be readmitted.
No individuals who are recovering from a felony (for example) and are on parole are allowed to be re-baptised, and certainly not have blessings restored. Sentences must be terminated in such cases, and depending on the nature of the offense, the wait might be longer.
I know one individual personally who did time in jail, was able to recover and serve his entire sentence for a very egregious crime, went through massive (and I mean MASSIVE) repentance, who now has his full blessings restored, holds the Priesthood, and is a rock. Those who know him refer to him as superman behind his back,…and they do it in utter respect. The guy made big mistakes, but his life has transformed, and it is amazing what and where he is now.
Excommunication is trauma. Unless you have been through it, you don’t know what it is like. Some don’t care as much, but others who have been raised in LDS Circles, their is a stigma that can follow you around. From what I understand, MOST who are exed do not come back…ever.
