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Thank you for the advice. I think it is wise to just walk away. This topic seems to have truly made people defend the status quo. As an interesting observation to this conversation (several people were involved) all of those defending the song/Proclamation to the Family grew up in traditional homes and currently have traditional family structure. All of those that were concerned either grew up in non-traditional settings or are currently living in a non-traditional family. I don’t know that it means anything, I just found it interesting. I shared my feelings about not liking this song with a ward member. Big mistake. In response she sent me this: “Gender is important. Here is another quote from LDS.org. “Because Satan “seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself” (2 Nephi 2:27), he and his followers try to lead us away from righteousness. He directs his most strenuous opposition at the most important aspects of Heavenly Father’s plan of happiness….He attempts to undermine the family by confusing gender, promoting sexual relations outside of marriage, ridiculing marriage, and discouraging childbearing by married adults who would otherwise raise children in righteousness.”
Any ideas on how to respond to her appropriately? I want to have a real discussion with her, but with quotes like this I feel overwhelmed and unable to respond.
I live in a Utah and it is difficult here. It’s like you are given 2 options: all in or all out. If the Bishop asks you to speak in Church, just say NO! Go to church when you want, don’t go when you don’t want. They’ll figure it out eventually.
There are lots of other churches in Utah. Just be careful revealing you are Mormon. A lot of them get really excited that someone has left the Church and really ask for you to speak out against the church and bring as many former members with you as you can.
You will find friends with similar feelings about the church here, lots of members who only go a few times a year, and even some TBM’s that will accept you where you are at without giving you a hard time.
Get used to the Bishop showing up unannounced. It’s the way it’s done here. Drives me nuts. You can ask him not to, but bear in mind, they do think it’s friendly and neighborly to do so.
Welcome to Zion.
😆 I was raised in the Church, but after a difficult divorce of my parents, I left the Church from the age 16 to about the age 22. During that time I had a long term boyfriend,about 3 years, and we had a sexual relationship. After that relationship ended, I had several other relationships and partners. When I met my husband (we just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary) I wasn’t active at church. He was a recently returned missionary. As we dated and he learned about my past, he really struggled with the idea that we wouldn’t both be virgins going into the marriage. He called a man he knew that married a woman with a similar circumstance and this man explained to him that it had in no way tainted their marriage relationship.
He decided to take a chance on me. I have been so blessed.
Let me tell you that the intimacy with my husband on our wedding night was the most beautiful experience of my life. It brought me to tears because it was actually at that moment that I laid there vulnerable with him that I knew I was forgiven… Not only by my new husband but by the Lord. My previous experience has had no negative effect on my intimate relationship with my husband. In fact because I do know what relationships without commitment are like, I find that a committed relationship, a marriage, fulfills me in a way that no other could. I do know that the grass isn’t greener.
I say don’t let past indiscretions change your feelings about her. Talk with a trusted friend or counselor, pray to find peace, and if you feel like she is the one, go for it. It just might turn out to be the best decision you ever made.
I would like to hear that the 3 hour block is no longer 3 hours. It’s too long, and it’s always been too long. I would like them to say that Sunday School and the other auxiliaries are optional. I treat them as optional, but many don’t because of guilt. I often have dejavu. I wonder if it’s a spiritual thing or not, because it doesn’t seem to have any significance. I remember being a young child, maybe 6 or 7 years old and thinking to myself that I wasn’t really experiencing this life, I was a grown adult woman who was looking back at past experiences. I felt like I had already lived and was just remembering or re-experiencing everything. Unusual thoughts, I think, for a child. Also, my husband and I had a shared vision, I don’t know what else to call it, shortly after we were engaged that had some very important and symbolic meanings for us, especially over time. The only way to describe what we saw was with “other eyes” or maybe spiritual eyes, maybe like watching a movie that had the air around us as the movie screen. We could talk to each other during the experience and pointed out different things to each other. We don’t discuss it often because it feels so…. sacred? special? unique? I don’t share it with others much because it doesn’t have meaning in others lives. It was very specific to what our life together would hold.
I cherish these things and recognize them to be gifts from God. I don’t know why he gave them to me, but think it’s awesome that he did. I always wonder if other people have these experiences, but haven’t found a forum to discuss them with other members. Mystics are a bit to ethereal for me to understand… their explanations don’t resonate for me.
Roy, I am truly sorry for your loss. I hope the comment of “dead baby stories” wasn’t offensive, it was my son’s choice of words at the time, and all though a bit rough and crude, I think these words epitomize the depth of the anguish it caused him to experience. I just wanted to add my 2 cents in here. My Stake did Trek a few years ago. My 12 year old son (at the time) didn’t want to go, but there was so much pressure that this would be a wonderful, spiritual experience my DH and I made him go. We should have listened to our instincts, and trust me in the future I’ll never trust a Bishop’s advice over my mother’s intuition again. Well, when our son came home, he didn’t want to talk about it. At all. He sat on my lap and cried for 2 hours until he fell asleep. He woke up and proceeded to tell us that he was hungry the whole time, there was never enough food (and he’s not one of those teenage boys that eat constantly) he never got enough to drink and was forced to participate in square dancing. (He did Irish dance for years, he knows how, he’s willing, he was tired) He said it felt like they walked 20 miles a day (it was more like 5, but still, it was hard) until he was physically exhausted and had to sit around the campfire and listen to dead baby stories.
It traumatized the kid.
He slept on the floor in our bedroom for a week, because the “dead baby stories” gave him nightmares.
I think Trek is overrated.
Thanks for the advice. I will talk to her this afternoon. I don’t want to create an apologist, I want to have a daughter that can and will seek for truth in all things, no matter where that leads her. Ray, I didn’t know that it was against Church policy. I am glad to know that it is. I am considering formally switching wards, but I don’t know how agreeable my own BP/SP will be.
Thanks for the support. I finally feel I have found like-minded LDS friends. This is a community of love and support, just like the gospel should be.
I don’t advocate for people to leave a ward either. I do think that being assigned a ward is good. I have met people that I wouldn’t have if I were picking and choosing a ward. They have helped me on my path towards salvation. I think part of our journey here is to learn to love others and what better way than through a ward of many differing personalities? When it starts to drag on a kids self-esteem, or your own, it’s time for an alternative. I have just been unsure what that alternative should be. I agree, church should be more about the Savior, however, I find that the people of your ward are a large part of your experience in the church. If you don’t like the experience, it can be a challenge to feel the spirit in the meeting because you are uncomfortable.
My BP has decided that if during the passing of the sacrament you are out in the foyer (or do we still call it a foy-ay?) you will not have the sacrament brought to you. It doesn’t matter the reason, you are late, you are out there with your screaming child, you were coughing and stepped out for a drink. He says there are plenty of seats in the chapel, and you should be in the chapel if you want to take the sacrament. Sounds good in theory. What actually happens is there is always a screaming child, and I don’t mean a baby or a kid who can be soothed quickly, but a particular 2 year old who screams at the top of his lungs during the prayers, the announcements, the sacrament that no one takes out because they’ll miss out on the sacrament.
:crazy: If someone is coughing, they keep on sharing their germs with all of us because they don’t want to miss the sacrament. People wander in during the sacrament prayers dragging their families (and let’s face it, walking in with a load of children no matter how reverent they are is disruptive). It is not a time for quiet reflection of your covenants, its a circus!! Personally, I’d trade off with my husband which one of us would miss sacrament to take care of our young child if this rule had existed when my kids were young. I’ve missed sacrament when I’ve been sick, on vacation or whatever and guess what? the world doesn’t end.We live here for several reasons. My kids attend a Charter school, and we wanted to be fairly close so they could walk if I couldn’t drive them. We unfortunately bought at the height of the market, and are still quite a bit underwater on our mortgage, so moving would be a big challenge. If I get the opportunity to move, I’ll be ward shopping before I buy a house!
Attending a different school than other students, at least here in Utah, is that the kids have shared experiences at the school. Oftentimes conversations are based around certain teachers or assignments that students have. It can also be based around dances at the school, sporting events at the school, etc. If you are the only child that doesn’t attend that school, you aren’t able to fully participate in discussions. It is frustrating, particularly when you are shy. The other ward we’ve been attending has YW that attend charter, traditional and home school. Very few go to school together, and they are able to turn that into a strength rather than a weakness. The ward I officially belong to has an atmosphere of exclusion. It has for a long time, from what I gather.
Thank you so much for the support. I appreciate hearing that it’s really okay to attend a different ward. I need the validation that I’m making the right choice. It seems when I talk to my LDS “friends” they are appalled at the thought.
