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I appreciate the insight expressed here about Elder Hollands talk. I really tried hard to not let any of my struggle with defensiveness get in the way of my REALLY hearing and listening to his witness in this talk. I’m perfectly okay with the testimony that he bore but I did feel a lot of disdain for and even scoffing at people who don’t find it absolutely obvious that the Book of Mormon is completely true. I really enjoyed your opposite interpretation, Ray. Really and truly, it helped me, but you really have to read between the lines to get that message. I was really hoping, praying, that in this conference, the apostles would stir some compassion and understanding for the very hard issues that are to be dealt with by someone who studies the history. I hoped that they would say something like unto the end of the “Why People Leave” presentation that John Dehlin put together. NOt the history parts but the end that talked about how to deal with people that struggle. I hoped that they would even mention that struggle and doubt doesn’t mean bad or weak or displeasing to God. I think that this could be done in a way that is faith promoting. Don’t you? I’m anxious to hear the PBS interview that you guys talked about. If anyone else is interested, here is the link: Thanks for that more positive overview of Elder Oaks’ talk. I have REALLY been struggling with that one and headed to trusty old stay lds this morning in hopes that someone wiser and more positive than I had something to say about it!! I guess I hadn’t heard the talk he’d given previously on homosexuality. I woke up in the middle of the night in sweats, worrying that I was going to hell for the change in my beliefs and a desire to get my kids as far away from this kind of thinking as possible!! Do you think I’m still a little defensive 😆 😆 😆 ! I reminded myself this morning of the kind of talks that Bruce R McConkie used to give as well as Kimball. Like you said, Hawkgirrl, its just different personalities I guess. I’m sure he’s a great guy with pure intentions and the church is still good. I just wish I could talk to him in person, tell him how much people like me are trying to believe and help him to see that he ruins lives with this kind of dogma. Thanks again for this discussion. I too really enjoyed Uchtdorf and Bednar. I need to go back and listen to Elder Andersons talk if some of you liked it so much. I turned it off after Hales to vent to my brother so I have some catching up to do. Here’s to some great listening today!This is a fascinating post and includes some thoughts that I have contemplated quite a lot. ALmost the most fascinating thing to me is how often you’ve felt the burning in the bosom, not even that its been contradictory! I begged, fasted and pleaded for SOMETHING for at least a year before I FINALLY got something! My “spiritual” sensation comes in the form of an overwhelming warmth that completely surrounds me. Its not within me but outside of me. But, like yours, feels like a hug from something bigger. I agree with so many of the comments and ideas that were stated before me. I no longer look to these “spiritual” sensations to tell me “TRUTH”. They are just blissful moments that I want to GO with! I want more of them. ANd if I find them somewhere than I want to keep on going to that place. And I don’t always have these at church. Half the time I attend and think it would have been better if I’d stayed home and spent time outside or being with my kids. But I do have little blissful moments there from time to time. I have spiritual sensations when reading books, when in nature, when loving my family, when I’m serving someone, watching movies/documentaries, jogging or cycling, reading great quotes or listening to a really great song. But they’re almost always related to my identifying with some ones human experience. I tend to believe these feelings are God but they are not expressing truth, its just expressing love. God is LOVE. And when you feel this overwhelming sensation of love, everyone around you is perfect and wonderful, every idea in your head is peaceful and wonderful and this peace is what can cause us to mistake our thoughts for truth…just what I think. I am completely open to the idea and even sometimes think that these feelings are my own creation. But that makes less sense to me so I don’t dwell on it. I think that God is much more hands off in this world. He has blessed us all with this moral sense, this guiding light, light of Christ if you will, and he will judge us based upon our following it or not. And I think it is very individual and unique. We all have a personal journey and this is where the whole “ONe and Only True Church” idea becomes so bothersome to me. Great post…thanks for sharing it with us!
I LOVE this quote, Jordan! I’ve never even hear of Obert C Tanner. I’ll check out your book review and then, maybe, read it! Thanks for sharing. Thank you for your thoughts,Just Me, Ray and Hawkgirl. I think I can really identify with what was said about the human experience and helping our children find their own path to God. The scriptures are rich with the human experience with God. I can hold on to that! I think Ray hit the nail on the head when he said “Frankly, I think you are questioning the way the scriptures were presented to you – as doctrinal proof texts, rather than as ways to learn principles and grow spiritually.” I have to find my own way of teaching the scriptures…teaching them to help my children learn principles and to grow spiritually! And that is exactly what I’m hoping to teach them through my continued church membership. Thanks, Ray. I’ve never been the scriptorian, that was my husbands job. I read my scriptures regularly but they never came alive for me. I just need to find the gumption to teach the kids by myself and learn about them while doing it. Maybe the kids and I can learn together! I really want my children to learn to recognize a spiritual witness when it comes to them. I want them, so badly, to feel the love of God in their life. Without the cut and dry answers that I relied on in my youth I feel lost as to how to help them recognize that. I’m having to formulate the methods for myself all over again. I’m still trying to find the things in the gospel that I can rely on. I know there is wheat amongst the tares I just have to find it again. Thanks for your help. Love this quote Valoel! I feel exactly like this and was trying to explain these feelings to my father the other day through some Joseph Campbell quotes. But this is better! Haven’t had time to read the individual responses yet and I can’t wait to make it back to those! Thanks for sharing this! I, too, may have to steal it! Just me- Thanks for this reply. I love what you said about wheat and tares BOTH being within the church. I’ve never thought of it this way. I really like this interpretation;) When reading the scripture from Nephi it felt very familiar to me…all things that you could find within the church! Definitely something to think about. Thanks for your quick response.
