Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Interesting thread. People are so varied with their responses to things. My dh is totally disaffected…one thing he said to me a few months ago that I think relates to the all or nothing reality I will share.
He got to the point where attending church with me and the kids was just getting too hard. To help me understand he explained it as when he is at church and he sees all these great people that he loves and respects show how committed they are and state clearly what they believe is true etc he would be sitting there and thinking “Im feeling like a failure, as I can no longer feel or think that way”….he was not thinking “These guys are deluded”. So this has really reinforced to him that much in life we may consider spiritual is in fact emotional. YOu know I get this and was not able to disagree with him, why would I want anyone to continue to be somewhere where they receive a feeling of being a failure!….I know the church community isnt meaning to do this, but for some people this is how they feel in reality. Thus I no longer get offended when he doesnt come. It makes him unhappy, I dont want that.
Now I am going through my own journey….I can and still want to go…to date I dont have the same reaction as my dh…but again I am a different person. Most of the times I am able to filter out what bugs me. But I can still feel good about what I am listening to. Obviously this is more pronounced when the focus is on Christ and not on something else like JS.
Valoel wrote:
I have been so very impressed with people outside the Church. I remember several times, years ago, that I brought this up in a sunday school or Elders Quorum class — “If being a member of the Church is the only thing that gives our life value, then God’s plan doesn’t seem to be very efficient.” Yeah, I said that a few times in class. It usually ended in an uncomfortable silence…
I would say that God is putting together a big puzzle. The people he wants to be Mormon-Shaped, he calls to them. They hear this call and respond when they come across mormonism or bump into missionaries. The people he wants to be Catholic-shaped, he calls to them. So on and so forth.
I’m not really going to worry too much about the people that don’t become Mormons. There are many good, spiritual, enlightened people out there that are loved and accepted by God. I learn a lot from them.
Great thoughts Valoel…I could not agree more really. I think many are born a certain way (not literally)…some Catholic, some mormon etc etc. Its just a matter of that being synched up in ones life. Even if I ever left the church…I think I would still be LDS in so many ways unless I totally fought it and consciously made major change…its just who I am. Thus I guess if I was not born to member parents, I would probably be converted sometime in my life…like I would be that “golden” convert etc that missionaries speak of stumbling across. I guess that is why so many like me then struggle when they have a crisis in faith…I seriously want to find the middle way and staylds as I know that perhaps it would be hard to fill that void with another religion etc. I am not in denial and know now that I will never be a traditional LDS member, as I can no longer put what I have learned on that shelf that is now broken…but I also cannot just leave the good on the shelf either! Life is sometimes fun hey
I have two brothers…one very TBM and very active, currently serving as a SP, and another who has been inactive since 16, so whom I consider a non-member. BOth men are great dads, and husbands, both really serve in their respective communities they are involved in..(obviously one is the LDS comm, the other is heavily involved in a sporting club serving as President etc)…many times I have seen each brother “reveal” who they are in essence by their actions in their everyday life and I have to say that I would judge them equally if it was up to me….seriously both serve service rich lives and I feel very proud of them both.
Currently we are sending our kids to a private Anglican based school (we are not in the USA)…I also attended this school as a child. So my kids are regularly taught from a “Good News Bible” perspective, and you know I do not fear this at all. The messages they are getting are good, and due to the way the language is written, they can follow easily it. I smile when I see how this religion markets christain living to the younger kids…eg becoming more God Like is marketed as being a “BIG RESCUE” etc. I also have visited different religions services over the years for various friends weddings, christenings etc. I can always find something good in each visit.
But if I was honest I would have to say that I really appreicate the REVERENCE of the LDS services. I do not mean from a audience point of view, I mean the way we traditionally conduct meetings like SM and firesides. It gels with me, and I like this feeling. Again this doesnt make me think the other non-LDS services are anything less, they are just different (eg more casual language, sometimes clapping, cheers etc)…different is different, not better or worse.
Hi Mike, Thanks for joining I enjoyed your post.
I could not help it but while reading your post it was like you were doing what my hubby did for about 3 years, and I was your wife.
My dh husband after several years of “trying” has now made it clear that he no longer wants to be a Mormon. He wont resign or anything, and isnt actually bitter, just kind of knows what will send him mental, and continuing as the “LDS” man was making him more resentful with every passing Sunday.
It took me a long time but I am accepting of this now…it took a lot of prayer etc but now I know that whats in his heart is what matters, rather then the amount of LDSness in his life. He is a good man, my fear thought he would become something else…but this is my porgramming and nothing else…he is still the same great man, and actually improving now he feels he can be open and honest about his spiritual feelings and thoughts.
Ironically now its me that is starting in the process of having a crisis in faith…except I am at least hoping to be able to remain a member, even if I become a kind of non-traditional member (that is – disgarding what I do not beleive and running with the rest etc).
So keep at it….all I would suggest is that you keep trying to communicate with your wife. yes I was the same, I shut down many of our conversations, but now I see that I was wrong, and a lot of damage was created in our relationship. But my dh didnt actually want to pass on his doubts so he also kept a lot of it to himself when he could see I was not ready etc….but in the meantime both of us started to distance ourselves….and I would love it if another couple did not have to go through this part of it!!!!! Thankfully we have recovered. We are closer then ever now. Now that I am experiencing my own doubts he is just there to cuddle me as I cry due to my grief in losing some of my beliefs…he never once has said “see I told you so”….he knows this is a journey…he is okay if I still manage to find peace by attending…for him its too hard…he may come sometimes…but he has now made it clear to all that care that he only ever wants to be a visitor etc.
Good luck with your journey. I hope you can find peace and manage to lead your YM in good ways…even if you are not the total TBM YM Pres you think they should have!
Well I have been involved in Primary for ages. Most recently as a teacher for the past 2.5 years. I asked for a released about 6weeks ago, as my dh has totally dissaffected himself and some Sundays I will choose to do something non-church as a family and I hate always letting the Pres down when something comes up ( as it has of late)…so as my Bishop is fully aware I just ask to be released as right now for my marriage I need my dh to know that some days he is more important to me then attending a set of meetings. Any ironically its been within the last month that my own crisis of faith has started….so now i am out of Primary and been to RS only a couple of times as I was still helping Primary a bit with the SM presentation. Well I have to say I am not liking RS at all. Its all so static…the repsonses I mean….not much mention about following the example of church…but plenty of answers to questions like “what can we do as Sisters to resist being less then what we are?”….answers were “attend all our meetings every week, follow the prophet, support our husbands in their callings etc….they asked me and I just said “well maybe Ive been in primary for too long but I guess I think if we always think “well what would Jesus do?” then we usually are on the right track!”, I just got a few nods and then more of the same blah blah blah.
Anyway some teachers are better then others.
Opps. I did not mean to sound critical of what past leaders have said/practiced. I just dont believe it was right.
If I have offended anyone I aplogize.
OK – I’ll say it….I think it is all of the devil! I think both JS, BY and whoever else practiced it were misled.
Seriously I dont get it at all….probably never will so if I see it in the afterlife I will get it then! I think if I do see it, it will be nothing like how it was practiced on earth.
Yes I could get it if it was just a man taking responsibility for a woman’s temporal needs etc (eg when her husband died at war or whatever etc)…thus 1st wife would have normal marriage (eg sexual bond), 2nd wife would be cared for in all material ways but would have more of brother/sister type love for the new husband taking that on etc…this would show me that God just wants all women to be able to enjoy the peace of being looked after etc….. but the facts show it was not practiced like this at all…men going behind their wives backs proposing marriage to others (many teenagers and married women), men going against the law, lying publicly etc…..that behaviour is not of God. Well not the one I believe in anyway.
But the whole BIG LOVE scene of multiple sexual partners, all these wives playing happy families etc is not on my wave length. All but the 1st wife feel less then what they should in my opinion…the God I believe in wants EVERY woman to feel cherished etc…and I pesonally do not feel you can get that if you are sharing one man among multiple women in the physical sense…it just destroys the beauty of sex when it is shared…..
Anyway thats my 2cents.
hawkgrrrl wrote:
One thing I tell myself is that I don’t let the things I don’t know erase the things I do know. But I would also say I don’t know very much (I believe and hope more than I know), and I am always willing to evaluate the things I do know, realizing that some things are not knowable.(this is my first attempt at using a quote so lets see if it worked!)
Totally agree with this line of thinking….very much describes how I am now dealing with the all or nothing change of thinking. I see too many good things that have come out in my life from living for the most part as a TBM, hence why I am not wanting to just drop it all now.
I guess too I am now trying to move forward SOMEHOW. I dont think I will ever be a TBM again…now I question things like modern day relevation more then I ever did…so I am kind of moving forward as a non-traditional Mormon then anything else right now(well this is the plan for now anyway). I would say this is different to a NOM. I dont want to be at church just nit picking at how TBMs are doing stuff wrong, or not infomed etc. I want to be at church and to feel uplifted, so I am hoping I can just see more positives then negatives…you know the net good theory….
I want to move forward as an LDS that practices what I really do believe, and not feel guilty or LESS THEN PERFECT about not necessarily practicing the other things that perhaps I have only done beforehand out of respect, culture, tradition etc. Its only now that I am even thinking about it all…ie why I am doing certain things? is it because I beleive they are of God, or someother reason etc?
This is current for me right now as I am questioning the diviness of things like the Temple, and wearing garments etc. When I am honest I have only lived this part of the LDS religion due to the expectations….I guess I dont know if it is of God, or man yet…again I only started to think about it recently due to being confronted with events in USA that made me feel I was not on the same page as Pres Monson (ie Prop
.Dont get me wrong I think the temple is a wonderful place. I have never had an amazing spiritual experience inside or anything…but I like the peace i feel in the celestial room. But the crtic in me now questions whether I wouldn’t also feel that peace in other temples even of other faiths that are also dedicated to worship?
So I want to stay LDS, but still be honest to what I think is really important (ie of GOD), and thus I cannot ever see my self as a traditional LDS person again. So time will tell I guess. I am taking it all one step at a time.
Its a pity many have this all or nothing mindset..it is hard to fight…but I may not want or now accept it “all”…but I know I do not want “nothing” also!
Hi All, Ive just discovered this site. I casually tried to see if mormonstories might be back on board and though I found out NO…I found this instead. Well done.
I am thankful for this discussion as it has been on my mind of late.
I am LDS…was inactive as a teenager but at 19 decided it was how I wanted to live etc. I remember then starting to read, pray etc and yes my life improved. I then served a mission (but never had any of those “this is the door to knock on” experiences), married an RM etc. Ten years into our marriage my dh told me he didnt beleive anymore. We have struggled but I am now come full circle with him and we are now like newlyweds again. Ive recently joined faceseast and enjoy that reading as well.
I’ll tell you in a sec while I am thinking I may be at the beginning of the end of my testimony…something I hope doesnt happen and why I am reading these forums etc.
Anyway re this topic….I absolutely think that spiritual experiences are all so unique, but I do think they are real and can take many different forms. Again I think this is inline with how we are taight in primary that Heavenly Father knows and loves us all…as individuals!
Personally I seem to have prayers answered but you know it usually isnt until I am in a state to accept God’s will. I find usually I pray and pray and pray…then so much time passes and nothing. Then at some point I will alter my prayer a little bit and I must make it clearer or something to God as then I get a response! I remember at one point having the love of my life propose to me, I was Barbie and he was my Ken….but I had huge family opposition. I was constantly praying along the lines of “Is he the right one for me?”…nothing nothing nothing…then as the family stress continued….I changed to “Is he worth all of this?” I can tell you at this point I was ready to do whatever, I was ready to abondon my family, or him, I just wanted the angst to stop. Well that night I had such a clear dream, and then woke up actually verbally saying NO NO NO.
Well long story short…he was Mr Wrong. I still think he is a great guy but now the years have gone by and we have both married other people I can see that we would have struggled a bit as a couple.
Ok so now in my life it happened again. My dh and I have struggled so much the past couple of years due to his crisis in faith. Recently though we were losing all hope, and i think were very close to separating. Then my prayers changed again…I was open to any suggestion as I was so so sad. Then I had an experience that made me do a complete backflip. It was a prompting to say to my dh “Im okay with what you are doing, I want you to be free to live as you want”. I kept pushing this out of my consciousness as I felt like I was backflipping on my principles etc…but again the prompting came back….about 10 times in one day.
I then late that night told my dh. He was totally shocked, and told me I was brave. I kind of figured it would either speed up the recovery or speed up the end!
Since then I have had many more prayers confirming to me that my dh still is the very fine person I married many years ago. I feel so calm and peaceful. So hopeful (not that he will want to be LDS again, but hopeful we have a good future together etc) and praying has given this to me. I think this is spiritual. It is to me anyway.
So why I need this site is because I feel that God has told me that my marriage/family is more valuable then the LDSness of married life. If my dh was on the way to a worse or destructive life why would I be prompted to hold this family together? Wouldnt a more logical way be for me to be prompted to prepare for change?
Then the whole Prop8 thing has happened and this has totally shaken my faith in modern day revelation. So basically now I am asking myself what I actually believe and what is it that I just do out of culture/expectations etc. Its been a bit confronting to say the least. So now I am so wanting to get back to a place where I wanted no other thing then to be LDS. All of a sudden it feels like I could take it or leave it. My kids are still very little so I guess I am motivated for them to go through primary etc as at least most of that program focusses on Christ.
Anyway sorry for this lengthy post.
