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Ebowalker wrote:
SamBee wrote:Speaking as a non-American, I can respect some of the views in it. The US Constitution enshrines some values desperately needed elsewhere, e.g. power proceeding from the people not wielded over them, the rights to free woship and expression and so on, and also the abolition of slavery as he mentions. Many countries do not have this especially the likes of Iran or China.
It was a personal agenda and not appropriate in General Conference. Especially where all that effort was made to push the “global church” theme. It will never be a global church as long as its deep focus is one country.
I am a foreigner who has never lived in the USA. I do not worship its system, but I think there are aspects which are admirable.
Freedoms have been heavily under attack in the last few years across the world. Some countries have never been free, but the West is going backwards right now.
nibbler wrote:
It’s hard to recall all the talks and they haven’t posted a listing yet but from memory.Saturday morning: Gong, Stevenson, Uchtdorf
Sunday morning: All talks except Nelson’s
It’s a good start.
I’d like to avoid anything which talks about how wonderful the response to Covid supposedly is.
Ebowalker wrote:
For me, the cultural creep and Americanizing of this Church when they insist it’s a global Church just doesn’t work for me. I really detest the PR & marketing department’s overreach of this Church.I suppose it’s important to the majority of the tithe payers (Americans) in this Church, but a talk about a country’s constitution belongs outside General Conference, in a more local venue.
That’s a hard pass and an eye roll for me.
Speaking as a non-American, I can respect some of the views in it. The US Constitution enshrines some values desperately needed elsewhere, e.g. power proceeding from the people not wielded over them, the rights to free woship and expression and so on, and also the abolition of slavery as he mentions. Many countries do not have this especially the likes of Iran or China.
These rights have been heavily eroded in the past decade in many countries. It is often done under the banner of fairness and fact, but it is destroying wider freedoms. The last year has been a nightmare – I wasn’t even able to ask a basic question on Facebook about the mental health impact of our lockdowns (which are much more severe than anything stateside)… It was censored yet this has been a major method of communication while I am under virtual house arrest. I know someone who has drunk themselves to death over this period.
So yes, the US constitution is far from perfect, but it enshrines some values we need desperately elsewhere. My right to freedom of religion is gradually being destroyed here as well.
Ebowalker mentions it elsewhere: Quote:Your mountains will vary. And yet the answer to each of your challenges is to increase your faith. That takes work .
Lazy learners and lax disciples will always struggle to muster even a particle of faith.
To do anything well requires effort.
So many mixed feelings about this. Are there lazy and lax people? Yes. But what about the people who are the opposite and struggle.
Thank you for your post. It touched me. I really don’t know what to make of my parents in retrospect. On one level, I loved them, but on another I feel they had unrealistic expectations of me, based on out of date ideas. (Their concepts of the labor market were based on the post-war period.) My father especially troubles me. I think he was a good man, although difficult sometimes. But I don’t agree with how he raised me. He beat me with a stick a few times, and I don’t cherish that memory. But he also helped me when I was scared of the dark or in trouble at school. He was a lot more successful than I ever have been and I fall continually under that shadow.
Katzpur wrote:
It seems to me, more and more all the time, that a temple recommend is being required for all sorts of things other than admission to the temple. I would even consider letting mine lapse, except that I probably wouldn’t be able to continue in my calling at the jail. I think of it as my jail recommend. How crazy is that?
I think that has long been the case.
Matthew 25:36
“Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.”
I’m going to pass on conference this year due to the reason I mention. If there are any good talks which don’t mention the elephant in the room, let me know. HazyShadeofFall wrote:. The next time we had a lockdown in the fall, the stake decided not to authorize home sacrament for anyone, and the bishop apologized to me personally that they had ever made a decision regarding the sacrament that caused pain for the women (and probably others) in the stake..
I’m really sorry to hear that. I celebrate sacrament by myself and it’s not the same, it’s very lonely, but it’s part of the hypocrisy of this whole thing that Amazon and pizza places can pop by every day but that you can’t get sacrament delivered. Do the bread and water even have to be open?
NoahVail wrote:
SamBee wrote:It simply isn’t uplifting or godly. We are entering a very dark period of human history, and pretending everything is okay is not on.
I think they’re all dark. I mean I can’t pick a period where there wasn’t widespread, life-changingly awful stuff happening. Just in the time encompassing my grandparents lives and my own, I see other instances of every type of present day suffering – usually in degrees that are measurably worse.
There is darkness in every age, but this seems to be global which is rare. And it isn’t the virus that worries me the most just now. It is where we are heading.
I think we were lucky in the nineties (in the west anyway – not elsewhere). The threat of nuclear war had diminished, the political extremes were there but not mainstream, work was easier to apply for, and the internet was fresh, if nerdy. The decade has bad associations for me because of bereavements,, but the setting was far better.
So I’d take them despite the personal associations . TV was worse, I suppose, with some honorable exceptions. But the nineties look good from here. Seventies and eighties had better music but other bigger issues. The noughties, well, numerous wars again. The nineties weren’t the best for cultural nostalgia but there was optimism in the air.
nibbler wrote:
SamBee wrote:
It was funny seeing some members follow the prophet on that one. Thing is, I really liked the I’m a Mormon campaign. We got to see members from all over the world of all different flavors, and it was a shame to see it go.
That’s true. Less a missionary outreach program and more to expose members to the diversity in the church.
I see it as both. For most of my non-member friends, “Mormons” (as they would still call us) are the missionaries who ring their doorbells and have strange beliefs. That’s about it. Maybe clothing and polygamy.
It was a breath of fresh air to see people like the Tattooed Mormon (whose real name I forget), surfers and mountain bikers – i.e. people who weren’t all suits – Lindsey Stirling (who I don’t listen to much, but is fun), and people from all kinds of backgrounds and work. We do have genuine variety within our own ward, but it isn’t always obvious during the services – we have had visual artists, academics, road workers, truckers, sportsmen, rich businessmen and people from several continents. I only later learn some of these things.
PazamaManX wrote:
I feel the same. I’ve long since had my fill of anything related to the pandemic. Any talk that focuses on that will probably be an intermission for me.
I agree. I can barely listen to the radio now. There is a Greek station I listen to on Radio Garden. It has that plinky-plank traditional Greek music on it (which for some reason I’ve always liked) and I love the sound of the Greek language, but more importantly when the news comes on, I can’t understand it!!! I can’t listen to English language stations because of the constant lecturing and one-sided content. TV – streaming only and most ads on mute.
It simply isn’t uplifting or godly. We are entering a very dark period of human history, and pretending everything is okay is not on.
nibbler wrote:
While not an important doctrine, there’s the very recent example of the word Mormon. About 10 years ago in my ward a lot of emphasis was placed on every member creating an “I’m a Mormon” profile. A few years ago in my ward identifying as “Mormon” became taboo. Maybe not the best example, the underpinnings have a lot of nuance, but that’s how my local community reacted to direction received from leadership.
Would you believe it but I still have some of those passalong cards in my wallet!!!
It is obviously Pres. Nelson’s hobby horse. I like the idea of the Church emphasizing Jesus, but a lot of the changes are esthetic. Moroni was *our* symbol. Mormon is not a name to be ashamed of. It sounds a bit too like moron but that’s it.
It was funny seeing some members follow the prophet on that one. Thing is, I really liked the I’m a Mormon campaign. We got to see members from all over the world of all different flavors, and it was a shame to see it go.
I’m not a fan of it either. It’s not a case of something like Star Trek where episode 3 of one season contradicts a minor point in episode 15 of another one and only nerds notice it… It’s often major and profound. The key point is that the LDS is genuinely a living church. While change is difficult in some churches, it happens all the time in the LDS. It evolves. Sometimes, but not always, for the better. It was useful for dealing with the priesthood ban for example. Or the endowment ceremony.
NoahVail wrote:
I’d welcome some instruction about making chapels a sanctuary from politics – that led to meaningfully less politics from the stand.
Ooh, a difficult one. Party politics, yes, but the rest. Not so easy. Politics blends into many things. I think freedom of religion, and religious practice, is a legitimate topic, for example. It might get a bit thornier when someone talks about the Royal Family in Commonwealth Countries.
I was in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and heard an opening prayer which mentioned something about the “security services”. Now, while I don’t support the IRA, I can see that phrase not going down well with anyone from a Roman Catholic/Republican background, because the British “security services” are widely seen as persecuting that community or even as an occupation force.
