[sanders31105]

Daeruin wrote:

You are definitely welcome here. There are a number of other people here who have posted about anxiety and other related issues. I have some minor anxiety myself. It doesn’t usually get in the way of my life, but it’s been exacerbated since I have found myself in the borderlands of Mormonism. Those phone calls to cryptic meetings really get to me. I have to work really hard not to freak out.

I’ve been really interested in meditation but haven’t taken much time to look into it. I have issues with prayer and belief in God himself. Do you think that Phil McLemore’s meditation seminar would be helpful for someone who isn’t sure that God even exists? I am interested in meditation as a form of self-awareness and maybe prayer, but I have such a deep skeptical streak I’m not sure how it would work out if the focus is on spiritual awakenings—since my experience doesn’t give me any real connection to what a spiritual awakening might be like.

Hi Daeruin,

Thanks for your question. I think his seminar would be perfect for someone like you. You can definitely use meditation for self awareness and prayer. In this first event he actually talks about the difference between praying to God (traditional Mormon praying) and praying IN God. I think you will really enjoy it.

Meditation doesn’t have to be about spiritual awakening, though personally I think it’s the highest benefit of meditating. Stilling the mind is great for relieving stress and overall health improvement. I hope you’ll join us. Phil’s knowledge is incredible and I think anyone who is remotely interested in meditation will get something good out of this first live event.

[sanders31105]

SamBee wrote:

I am very interested in what you are saying about Mormon meditation, and hope you will explicate it further. I would like to see something done further on those lines.

I’m not a meditation expert or guru. It’s completely changed my life though. As I was searching for deeper spiritual knowledge and meditation techniques, I came across a couple of really amazing articles by Phil McLemore. He’s a Mormon yogi who does meditation seminars in Utah. One of his articles, Yoga of Christ really connected with me. Here’s a link to the article https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/146-30-45.pdf.

Over the course of the year, I’ve gotten to know Phil and he’s really helped me in my spiritual awakening and meditation practice. As I mentioned in my OP, this knowledge has made a huge impact on my life. It literally saved my family and helped me over come some deep issues with anxiety. Since my experience with Phil has been so transformational, I desperately wanted to get his message out to the world and help others who were in my same situation. He’s retired, only does local seminars, but I talked him into doing some online meditation seminars. We are going to be holding our first one on March 27 and you’re welcome to attend. There’s no cost. The link is in my sig if you or anyone else is interested.

Thanks again for everyone who has welcomed me into forum. I’ve bounced around a few other ones, but feel really comfortable here.

[sanders31105]

What I like most about the Temple is the quiet and stillness. I think people have spiritual experiences there, not because it’s a magically spiritual place, but because of the stillness that is promoted in the temple. It’s much easier to connect with God when we are still.

[sanders31105]

smplfy7 wrote:

Welcome, sanders! It’s great to have you here.

I can really relate to your story. I’ve struggled with anxiety/depression since I was a kid. It definitely hit a peak on my mission. I still deal with it on occasion. And like you, I have found the best way to combat it is through meditation and mindfulness. There is no better feeling than when you’re fully focused on the present moment and just viewing the world as it is. No worries about tomorrow, no regrets about yesterday, just observing what is.

sanders31105 wrote:

Though I feel wonderful, I’m still trying to navigate the waters between my new found spirituality and my place in the church. I find myself struggling to relate to the normal members of the church and seeing where I fit in. Is there room for people like me in the church? I have been a member my whole life, have had positive experiences in the church, but I’m still finding it difficult to talk to my friends and church members about my new spiritual insights and experiences. I’ve tried talking to a few friends and members of my ward about some of these things, and so far it’s been met with resistance or indifference.

There absolutely is room for people like you in the church! I hope so, if not then I’ll be getting booted too Everyone has a unique understanding and belief about spirituality. You may find some resistance or even complete disagreement when talking with some people, particularly those with a very orthodox view of the church, but you will also find some people that completely relate to you (myself being one of them). The further along I get in my unique spiritual path, the more I am valuing the differences of opinion. If everyone agreed with my beliefs, I wouldn’t have much to learn from them. On the other hand, if I agreed with everyone else’s beliefs, I wouldn’t have much to share with them.

To sum it up… Embrace your views. Share what has made you happy. If you come across people that disagree with you, see what you can learn from that difference of opinion.

Great post! Thanks for joining the group.

Your post gave me chills. Thank you so much. It feels great to hear from people that feel the way I do, and am so glad to meet you.

[sanders31105]

Thanks so much for sharing! Your description of your prayer in nature was beautiful. I’ve come to believe that we must pray IN God instead of praying to God. To still our minds and truly abide in His presence. Meditation has been the key for me. Learning to still my mind and just be. It’s amazing the wisdom and insights you can gain when you are able to stop the chatter in your mind.

[sanders31105]

Daeruin wrote:

This essay/talk is absolutely chock full of awesome stuff, including choice comments on the fallibility of church leaders, the nature of restoration, the exclusivity of Mormonism, the efficacy of institutional religion, and the nature of personal revelation. The part that resonated with me the most was his commentary on faith as a choice.

Quote:

The call to faith is a summons to engage the heart, to attune it to resonate in sympathy with principles and values and ideals that we devoutly hope are true and which we have reasonable but not certain grounds for believing to be true. There must be grounds for doubt as well as belief, in order to render the choice more truly a choice, and therefore the more deliberate, and laden with personal vulnerability and investment. An overwhelming preponderance of evidence on either side would make our choice as meaningless as would a loaded gun pointed at our heads. The option to believe must appear on one’s personal horizon like the fruit of paradise, perched precariously between sets of demands held in dynamic tension. Fortunately, in this world, one is always provided with sufficient materials out of which to fashion a life of credible conviction or dismissive denial. We are acted upon, in other words, by appeals to our personal values, our yearnings, our fears, our appetites, and our egos. What we choose to embrace, to be responsive to, is the purest reflection of who we are and what we love. That is why faith, the choice to believe, is, in the final analysis, an action that is positively laden with moral significance.

The call to faith, in this light, is not some test of a coy god, waiting to see if we “get it right.” It is the only summons, issued under the only conditions, which can allow us fully to reveal who we are, what we most love, and what we most devoutly desire. Without constraint, without any form of mental compulsion, the act of belief becomes the freest possible projection of what resides in our hearts. Like the poet’s image of a church bell that only reveals its latent music when struck, or a dragonfly that only flames forth its beauty in flight, so does the content of a human heart lie buried until action calls it forth. The greatest act of self-revelation occurs when we choose what we will believe, in that space of freedom that exists between knowing that a thing is, and knowing that a thing is not.

This is the realm where faith operates, and when faith is a freely chosen gesture, it expresses something essential about the self.

What do you think?

Thanks so much for posting this article. I read it when it first came out. The unknown is a beautiful thing and is necessary for our spiritual growth.

[sanders31105]

Thanks Dark Jedi. I’m feeling the love here. I plan to stick around

[sanders31105]

Thanks for your reply convert1992. I’m really loving this forum more and more.

What you wrote is so dead on. No wonder there is so much anxiety in the church. My awakening more than anything has been that cultural mormonism isn’t the gospel. That my identity and worth aren’t tied to how many things I can check off my Mormon to do list. It’s sad to see so many members worshiping at the feet of cultural mormonism. Christ Himself spent most of his ministry challenging the idea that spirituality and salvation come from strict adherence to tradition and doctrinal fundamentalism.

[sanders31105]

Welcome!

I’m also new to the forum and am really loving it. I really appreciate the perspectives that are shared here…no hate just brutal honesty and understanding.

I don’t buy into the notion that it’s all or nothing in the church. That you either have to agree with everything or get out, or if you have doubts and concerns you must completely disassociate with the Church. We are allowed to have doubts and concerns. It’s ok to keep the things we enjoy about being members. It’s ok to broaden our spiritual knowledge outside the traditional teachings of the church. I firmly believe this. I still feel like I’m on the fringes some times, but the church is my tribe. I’ve come to peace with the good and the bad.

Also, your spiritual journey is deeply personal and unique. I believe the church is just a governing body, and is not meant to replace God or your relationship with Him. God will never abandon you just because you don’t agree with or don’t believe in certain things.

I hope you and your family are able to find peace through this whole process. Keep following your heart and moving forward into the unknown.

Thanks for posting your experience.

[sanders31105]

Welcome!

I really like a lot of the answers in this thread already. I would just add a few things. Your spiritual journey is personal and unique to you. You can choose to hold on to the things in the church that make you happy and give you security, and discard the things that don’t. You mentioned several things that still bring you joy and fulfillment. There’s nothing hypocritical about holding on to those things, while still having doubts and/or disagreeing with other things. It’s not all or nothing.

I believe the church was never setup to be the bedrock of our spirituality, but is there to be the governing body and structure. It gives us a place to serve, fellowship, and perform rituals to remind us of God. The spiritual part is up to us individually, and shouldn’t be attached to the actions or policies of the church.

I don’t know if this is a great analogy, but it’s almost like being American. There are some very dark episodes in our country’s history. I’m also against much of what our government does today. Having said that, I would never give up my citizenship or move to another country. I love it here and am proud to be an american. I kind of feel like that about the church. I don’t agree with everything and know there are dark periods in the past. But it’s my tribe and I still love being a Mormon. Instead of leaving, I personally feel I have an opportunity to share my unique perspective and truth, regardless what others think or say.

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