[seanhess]

Thanks again everyone for all your help. I’ll stay in touch as I go through this

[seanhess]

Very good advice. Making hasty decisions can be bad.

Now, I’m taking your advice to heart, but to be thorough, here’s one more thing I’m thinking. I definitely don’t want to burn any bridges (remove my name from the records of the church, or announce my apostasy to my family), but in general I learn things about life by trying them. When I couldn’t pick a major in college, I just tried some until I found one that worked. I just quit my job because I think starting a business is a good next step. I’ll know whether or not it was after I try it for a while. But it’s not like I’m going to drive myself to ruin because I’m trying it. The worst thing that can happen is I will be poor and get another job in a year (no debt/capital needed).

So when I say I’m considering stepping away from the church, it’s not like I couldn’t change my mind. I might even continue to make an appearance at church. Might doing that be the same as trying out a job or career? Things aren’t as permanent as they sometimes seem.

If we were victims of group-think, wouldn’t stepping away be the only way we could come to grips with reality?

Again, I learn a lot by putting an argument through its paces, so don’t think I’m disagreeing with your excellent advice, I just want to know how you think through everything.

[seanhess]

Just thinking… even though one can reengage with religion in Stage 5, aren’t you tempted to throw it all away and try to live without it? How many of you have done that for a while?

There’s a part of me that loves to get rid of junk. It’s the part that throws away my stuff when I move, that pays off debts (because they are annoying, not because it’s the right thing to do), that tries to reorganize my schedule to cut out stuff I don’t need. That part of me thinks that if I won’t be condemned for it, I would be better off trying life without the Church, because I shouldn’t make life more complicated than it needs to be. That’s not the premise of this site, obviously, but many of you must have considered it, right?

Is it a given for you that God wants you to be active in religion, or that you must be spiritual?

[seanhess]

Profound stuff… thanks guys. I’m certainly not in Stage 5 yet, although I’m starting to imagine that the transition will be gradual for me. I think some parts of me think in Stage 5, but most of my is still coming to grips with the disillusionment itself (early stage 4).

I think I’m starting to realize that acceptance of paradox is the key to moving on. I mean, basically I’m stating that it IS a paradox for the Church to be God’s one true path. It doesn’t make sense, but that’s ok, I suppose.

I’m still digesting everything… it would definitely be easier if the Church was more open to bottom-up correction, and admitting when things were mistakes, instead of trying to explain everything, but… I’m ok with how it is, too.

[seanhess]

Thank you so much for your many replies. I certainly feel welcome and comfortable working things out here.

I think I made a mistake using the world “cult”. It’s too loaded. I was referring mostly to the fact that cults encourage people to stop thinking, and that that clearly leads them down the wrong path, so that kind of decision-making can’t be trusted. We also can’t assume that the one true church would be a don’t-think organization and we just happen to be in the right one.

swimordie wrote:

The cult paradigm is absolutely correct, imo, but I think the church overcame that reality-check, self-corrected and was able to move on. Mostly, by separating from society but also by sheer force of will. And the church has continued to have to overcome those reality checks (priesthood ban) and will in the future (gender/sexuality bias).

The church has certainly prevented itself from pursuing damaging courses, but the reality checks usually show you that the literalism you’ve been applying isn’t correct, so you can’t overcome them and continue to claim that everything you do is inspired by God.

@everybody who spoke of Goodness vs Rightness There’s definitely something big in that. Moroni 7:15-16. My Dad said something like that during a while ago. He said he know God wanted him to have his family be in the Church, and that was more important than it being true. And you’re right, it’s easy to discern good from bad.

@Bruch in Montana I’m not dismissing it, I just don’t see how that could possibly be an option. It’s not so much about Polygamy, but about the chances that our claim to revelation is right, and the others are wrong. It seems like either all visionary religion is true together, or all false together, because there’s nothing that distinguishes the early Mormon experience from others except that it survived. (Even if it survived by institutionalizing and losing it’s visionary aspect). I really WANT to be able to consider that option, but it seems to do so I have to dive back into the don’t-think mentality. Does that make sense?

@MisterCurie My wife has been handling it very well. She’s reading Bushman too, and we’ve agreed that at worst the Church is a good place for us, so she’s pre-decided she’s going to stay no matter what we/I decide. I think the transition will be painless, and I think she’s willing to stick with me no matter what I do too.

@hawkgrrl My misuse of the word cult is shining through here. Have I defined it better now?

Thanks for all your help!

[seanhess]

Sorry the post was so long! I didn’t mean to sound antagonistic, either. Emotionally, it’s not as big of a deal as I made it sound, but it does seem to be an intellectual stumbling block for me. Thanks.

[Author]

Posts