[Shades of Grey]

Wow Brian and SD, your recent posts are very thought provoking for where I would want to be in my heart, I’ve been without a TR about the same 8-years Brian mentioned but been able to really dodge a lot of confrontation with well meaning leaders or even personal thought processing regarding the matter because of my frequent moves over the last ten years. You guys present an authentic confidence, strength and practicality about the matter for yourselves while being happy for those that choose just the opposite for themselves. True Christians behavior without envy or spite for others who differently view the subject of TR worthiness and attendance as their worth before God. I too have always found a level of comfort in non-TR holding but it’s reason is one I’ve not heard from others before so I would love an opinion. It seems without a doubt for myself I feel much less “Pride and Judgement in my interactions with others- members and non members alike during my years as an adult being a mostly regular active member but not holding this Top Level TR distinction most of the time. Its a strange dichotomy I suppose (those feelings) they put me in a uniqe position of being more humble and Christlike in my daily dealings because due to my upbringing and belief in my non TR state i have no ground whatsoever to look down my nose at anyone- a daily thought that probally universally comes less for those who may have (as our human state presents) a feeling their much closer to their current “calling and election is made sure”. This idea of an ounce of pride can be more destructive than a pound of what TB,s might see as stagnant progression in my

current LDS state (even many a TB could agree with that it seems) gives me a somewhat still peacfulness that my path is

unorthadoxly celestial (for the lack of a better word). Am i unique on this feeling?

Oh ps. it also seems there is a component of me that is additionaslly at this Decision because of a feeling of bucking the

trend against a very number centric church (I’ve seen my share of fudged numbers and dishonesty even at high levels

because of the constant preoccupation of this LDS centric practice), however this does not play near the role of import as

the main topic of this post. And lastly having said all this I still (strangely i suppose) feel like it is a goal I would like to work for over the years on my own timeline instead of being rushed by some fear of fire-filled damnation. Ie. A trip back to Mecca later in life as do many others observe in the world.Thoughts?

[Shades of Grey]

Roy said

Quote:

The Savior himself was constantly fighting against well intentioned but manmade religious rules. I desire to participate in the church with my family from a position of honor and not of shame. I am grateful that although the church currently highlights the TR as a sign of worthiness, it does not necessarily equate the absence of a TR as a sign of unworthiness.

Thank you so much everyone for your replies. Roy a speacial thanks for your detailed post and the quote above- Shades of Grey was forgetting his own montra…the way you phrased that last sentence about the absence of a TR doesn’t therefore equate to the opposite extream of unworthiness was priceless to me when i read it. I hope to carry that inspired thought with my always. – for me or anyone i meet. The more I think about it the more I feel the this extream alternative black and white thinking is propagated by the advasary in our minds ie. Giving you the feeling continually you don’t belong- At times I was starting to hear the destructive words in my mind: “if you and your little family aren’t all the way in- and dont fit the mold 100% you aught to just give up! …You don’t belong here with your differences- and your not welcome in this club because your name is not on a speacial list that gets handed around in most top level meetings. They are all starring at you wondering what your ” hang-up is? Laziness for Duty, Pornography, WoW, Tithing, Question Church Docterine?”

I can (in my weak moments) just feel Satin making me believe these ?’s/ wheels are turning in the heads of all you brush shoulders with continually…. But now my strength to not care what others think is renewed. Roy your will to fight

through (what i assume) are the occasional same thoughts at times for the good of you and your family inspires me. Thank God for you-Thank God for this community.

[Shades of Grey]

Quote:

Now, I think there are guidelines in the CHI of things that they check to see if you have one for:

– Certain leadership callings

– Giving blessings or doing ordinances or confirming priesthood.

But I believe these callings and ordinances are subject to the bishop’s discretion of allowing under some circumstances, but I’m not sure about it.

In other words, it seems like the new version of the CHI wants anyone receiving a calling to have one, but they allow an out for a bishop to make the final call.

A few weeks ago I was asked to join in the circle for both a baby blessing and in addition a confirmation of membership (after baptism) of infants older siblings. As a non-temple reccomend holder but very active in exemplifying Christ daily living with continual love and service garnishing every thought (100 % home teacher and the guy everybody calls on for a hand on their home repair, which is never ending I’ve pleasantly found out:). I have participated in

the circle for baby blessings (non- saving ordinance) in the past and not felt I was in error. But

this time with the baptism confirmation after for in the same meeting I

started to second guess myself. I had joined the circle just minutes earlier for the

infant blessing and decided to go ahead and participate in the confirmation as well. Now

after reading through this thread I have started to think: Did I do wrong? (on the confirmation

decision… or even both for that matter) Sometimes I feel I have no idea what I’m doing as

someone who is trying to bless their families life by living as much of the LDS church life as I

can without leavening it all together. Undoubtedly this site helps myself and others to stay

which brings an measurable amount of good for us… but my mind keeps going back to scripture

such as the Lord does “spew out the Luke warm” Maybe it is all hot or cold or light or dark ie.

all on or all off with the LDS Gosple-Did i mock God by participating in priesthood circle? I

really want to know and avoid crossing any boundaries that would offend my FIH. I feel like I

need a real detailed list of what I can and can’t do- as a non-temple”ite” I have no problem

humbly taking my seat at the back of bus- I just need to know the do’s and don’ts because the

last thing I want is my actions to null someones confirmation of the Holy Spirit. Final question

“can you sometimes do more harm than good to yourself by staying not as lock-stepper? What

has any of us gained here if we just once mock God in our struggle to stay and live our own revealed truth at the same time? ~ thank you in advance by a very confused SOG

[Shades of Grey]

Candlelight25 I want you to know that you are exactly what your mother said about knowing from the beginning you were going to be a very important person to them in this world and imho she truely felt this beyond any other sibling (assuming you have some) because what you are about to embark on is going to teach your family through this process, if carried out with the spirit, to be closer to Christ than they ever have been or could be in the future otherwise. It is a very abstract thought, but for the very orthodox whom are wonderful in the areas of pray, pay, and obay ( often linear left brain thinkers) in my experience it is within these strengths they lack an even more fundamental component than any of the aforementioned to enter the kingdom of god.- True Charity and Love for fellow man no matter their misgivings or precieved earthly imperfections of that individual. Here is the abstract part… They think they are going to be the spiritual highground for youv through this….and in some regards they will be your lighthouse if or when you feel some rebellion from your creater during this process. Nevertheless, what i have come to see time and time again in these situations is that this trial has come to you because are called of God in this mortal state to soften their hearts in the ways i mentioned above which will be crusial to their salvation. If you go through this always keeping in mind that you have a devine mission and are a tool for the Lord now more than ever you will beable to soften hearts and change peoples lives- eternal lives In many respects by breaking their narrow schemas of Christianity and showing them you are walking with the lord no matter how they precieve this. There is a prominent BYU professor (up until just recently ago departed) that was openly gay in his description of himself but was/is of course celibate…. He has some incredible thoughts, several npr interviews and writings and even an independent movie comming up about his trial and growth through his journey. His light could be beneficial for you to review to gain empathy from a kindred spirit in kind. His name has escaped me but should be easy google. I hope some of these words help lighten your load today after the heavy thoughts of a grieving, confused and ready to grow mother.

[Shades of Grey]

I thought your latest post was very, very well written from several points of view. It is no doubt in my mind you posess (what I call) the 90% of what the gospel is, and you exude internal traits of Christ that many a SP including a close family member of mine could only dream of. Charitable in spirit and in word, feeling hurt or sorrow over causing your SP top worry means you are so empathetic of others…. others that are standing in judgement of your biology (not your actions neccesaarily). I am a better man today for reading this thread and feel more peace from your soul that comes through mightily in your writting than anything I got at church today. I cannot begin to know your inner turmoil but only to say please please do all you can to continue staying on this side of viewing life and trial as many stay LDSers seem to. If you are as optimisic as me ….”To stay” with our glaring flaws may be our God given life mission to assist the Lord helping ridgid orthadoxy break- down within his gospel that has over corrected to uber-emphasize “dos and don’t” lists (with it: pride, judgement, pharasee letter-law crap) go little by little and each generation is closer to loving thy neighbor as thy self… without limitation. Many of us here do not in fact “fit in the Mormon box” yet we are in many ways much closer to our final destination with God because I believe our own struggles lend us to a mindset that we by far give our fellow man more benefit of doubt than the average TB member. Remember for every Brighahm Young to succeed their must be a Porter Rockwell…. It is up to us to find that peace from the Lord if we are so inspired through personal revelation of this meaning in life for ourselves. No leader in the church can or will give it too you- otherwise there would be chaos on organizational level, the management of which the BP and SP are called to oversee.

[Shades of Grey]

It has come up several times in recent threads (including this one) that a bishop is most important when it involves all ordinances for those in his flock. Furthermore, since 2010 new doctrine or maybe just handbook rules state (not sure how they differ or how accurate my understanding is) you must have a temple recommend to perform any ordinance no exceptions- correct me if im misunderstood. This brings me to an important question to all you i look up to. I served in upstate New York mission and I always thought it would be great someday to see one of my children baptized in SUSQUEHANNA river. This option has become very real for me as the months are marching off to my daughters 8th birthday this summer and I fear i cannot baptize her and this would crush my extended family whom would assuredly want to be there if it were local and would also destroy ward member perceptions of our family and the ward whispering would start, children would slowly stop coming over to play…. Most of you know the drill. This last issue is the thing which is most feared by my wife. I have been invited by a member family from the old white shirt and tag days to stay with them and also the father has offered to do the ordinance of baptism as I cannot at this time because of the “off label” medication I use- sorry for the euphemism just hard to talk about sometimes (btw-that “med” is by all who know me close say has been a life saver-but rules are rules)…. I am not bitter in any way. Ok Bottom line question: How would you go about getting this properly approved and explained to a bishop and what paperwork would need to be filled out? How many witnesses would have to attend- IOW… could I be one of two witnesses as a Melchezidech priesthoodhood holder but no current temple recommend? BAny addition input or suggestions to succeed in this? PS My Bishop who is a awesome and righteous man believes we do not have TR because of tithing- this is only a diversion for the real truth and I donate my equivalent tithing into general fund as I am fortunate to be blessed financially and is no problem- just used as a screen so not asked to do church callings im not qualified spiritually for (i would never mock God) and do not have to discuss the true nature of TR problem as I know nothing of this juiciness is kept in a clergy/partitioner anonymity in current LDS church. I have witnessed that second hand many times. Thanks fir your reply and input- anything helps:)

[Shades of Grey]

Manic depression (bipolar) runs in my family. There are stories of a great grandmother of mine that every winter about this time of year would leave the family she loved very much for the California coast for several months to receive some relief from the seasonal affective disorder (SAD) that she knew would trigger a depression cycle. No coincidence that threads like this are often are started and discussed more openly this time of year IMHO:) Today I have three siblings that are medicated with many of the traditional medications these studies are discussing. Only one of them has remained marginally active in the church. The problem being…. the way I see it is that the use of MIOA and SRII (even when perfectly prescribed) leave the individual with a feeling of numbness as they stunt emotion (both the highs and the lows). In turn the lack of feeling leaves you less receptive to the spirit by way of emotional apathy toward all things: including the plight of servicing the needs of your fellow man (really the only true core value of the gospel). As a younger sibling I then realized the biology had not escaped me either, but understandably looked for other avenues of relief. I spent many years bulimic as the increases endorphins of that act I found out later were assisting in regulating my serotonin levels. That was great for some many years until my dentist called my out seeing the beginnings of enamel decay. The depression I felt after this meeting with him was overwhelming because I knew I could not continue….and all other “church sanctioned” methods of relief were off the table for me because I could not go down the road of the prescribed emotional apathy- IE space case SRII’s. That emotional numbness would defeat the purpose of remaining in the church I felt. I instead chose a rout that Brian (BTW consistently my favorite poster- thank you for all you do) alluded to in his earlier post of little less than legal route of medication (well technically only a few miles from legal as the state lines have been currently drawn). I remain very active in the church and am by far the most well-adjusted, balanced and successful sibling in my family. I of course cannot hold a temple recommend at this time but I never give up hope that either that the FDA trials of Sativex will be adopted…. or I will get a job transfer:)

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