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OK, another beam in my eye. The Book of Mormong repeatedly refers to synagogues. Synagogues, to my understanding, only came into existence as a result of the diaspora, well after Lehi’s time. Any thoughts about why the use of the term in the Book of Mormon? Oh boy, this is a can of worms for me. 1) I have a niece who has some sexual issues and when she went to the bishop, the kind of detail he demanded went way beyond his role as a bishop. Spooky. It was like he was getting gratification out of the interview.
2) Does anyone know the history of the exact questions in the temple interviews? I know they haven’t always been this specific. I mean, Brigham Young chewed tobacco and I assume he still got into the temple. I suspect some it came about with Joseph F. Smith, some with Heber J. Grant, some with McKay and some with Kimball.
3) I have a real problem with how miserable the church makes our young men about masturbation issues. I just don’t get it. Don’t they have a clue that this is probably the preeminent reason they lose young men in the church??? I just can’t figure out what the crime is. I don’t have statistics, but I’ll bet over half of our active young men spend their teenage years in misery over this.
Touche’. I love hearing the viewpoint of someone with your leanings. Without this forum, I would never get that chance! Thanks.
And who knew fundamentalists have humor. They never show that on the news!!!!
We just joke about just having a 5% social pass to the temple that would just get you into family weddings. I’m not advocating anything else. It really couldn’t be anything else and anything else would be a nightmare to administer. The tithe is scriptural. There is nothing more clear.
I know someone who has been denied help (working poor) from the bishop, at least on an ongoing basis. He’s raised four girls on a very low salary. I think that without ongoing assistance, he is not able to pay tithing consistently. He has loads of debt and has basically paid for life by refinancing his house over and over. He got church assistance for a short period once while he was out of work. I know the principle is to pay your tithing first and everything else will take care of itself, but it hasn’t seemed to work out that way in practice.
I guess my point, aside from the fact that we shouldn’t be judgmental, is the idea that nothing is as simple as it seems. We love to put things in neat little packets in the church.
As always, I appreciate the insights.
Interesting, I thought I was the only one who didn’t kneel all the time. I find prayers of Thanksgiving very helpful. Gratitude is a key to improving happiness. Prayer is key to expressing gratitude.
I struggle with the rest. As far as ”asking” prayers go, there are a lot of prayers I feel have gone unanswered. Or, if as I hear in church, that the answer is ‘no”, then why is the answer no so often? There seem to be lots of ‘yesses’ for the same kinds of things given to other people.
When we pray for someone’s health in the ward, I find it hard think that God withholds his healing until we say the words and perform the ritual. Seems kind of petty to me.
I find it perhaps arrogant that we think our words will change God’s will, and that outcomes are determined by what we say in a prayer. That’s a big load.
Sometimes I feel like it’s less oppressing to just think that things just happen, rather than thinking God is at the root of everything.
My wife feels so betrayed by God with some of the things that she is going through, that she doesn’t say “Amen” any more at church, and otherwise.
I am of course a hypocrite, confused and weak. We do hold family prayer, on our knees, most nights and I think that has been good for our family. I think prayers don’t work, then find myself having lots of small prayers during the day as described in this column.
I realize that I muddled two issues in my original post; 1) the Twelve holding the keys, and 2) Prophetic succession. The Twelve did know they held the keys early on. To answer you question, I guess I just feel a little betrayed by the church that has told me all my life to be honest in my dealings, in fact, requires it for temple attendance. I have been taught that being completely honest means telling the whole truth. Secondly, I get frustrated when church members discuss their neat little packages of ‘truth’ as facts what isn’t necessarily so. Thirdly, I feel frustrated that you are not allowed to discuss beyond certain boundaries, and would be labeled as a nut and a troublemaker if you brought up such things in class.
I guess in my naivete’, I expected something more from this church.
I guess I also feel a little frustrated that the church historically (until relatively recently), kept the lid on things by controlling access to historical research information.
I do realize that the publishing of church materials such as Gospel Doctrine Manuals and Institute Church History Manuals is done on the church’s dime, as is the teaching itself, and I guess they therefore have a right to teach whatever version they see fit.
As such, I have calmed down considerably since yesterday!
I went to the library and checked out ‘Sojourner’. I’m partway through, and it seems like an awesome book. I think part of my frustration, alluding to the last comment, is that people, at least here in Utah usually assume that if you are ‘righteous’, that your political leanings will be to the right. I hear lots of political trash talk . . . in church meetings and at church activities. It’s frustrating and isn’t the place for it.
I have done some reading that suggests John was likely of the Essene movement that practiced ritual washings. I don’t remember what that assumption was based on, but in all probability it was based on the geography (desert location) and the ritual itself. Thanks, very interesting. I had always thought that the Pro-life stance of the Democratic Party was the biggest reason that Utah was cemented firmly in the right, however it seems that the process began longer ago than that. My grandfather was a staunch democrat. I remember this being mentioned in the family in hushed tones with eyebrows raised while I was growing up in the 60s and 70s, like it was a family embarrassment. I have always been interested in Heber J. Grant’s role in homogenizing some our cultural practices, such as the business suit, the conservative haircut, and I believe a lot of the solidification of what consistutes ‘worthiness’, etc. He did retain his differences from the mainstream however, being a practicing polygamist well after the manifesto.
By the way, I have always found it interesting that societies, both Mormon and Christian, view Semitic peoples of the biblical and Book of Mormon times as ‘white’. In reality, their skin pigmentation was probably more in line with the peoples of the Arabian Peninsula today. We’re not talking about a tribe of Norsemen! Wordsleuth, I think you’ve done a good job of stating my views/concerns.
Yeah, the familiarity of the term is a good an explanation as any. It’s kind of like how we, and the brethren, constantly refer to the heart as an emotional organ. We know it’s not, yet that is the metaphor that people still understand.
Sorry for not being more clear, the concern is that per the theory, some of the chapters included in the Book of Mormon were written after Lehi’s departure. I’d have to go spend some time in 2nd Nephi, but I think anything past Isaiah 40 is considered by academia to have been written by a second source. Wow, I thought I was the only one. I absolutely dread my three hour block. It is frightfully boring. The same banal discussions, over and over. The same talks over and over. It is generally the worst part of my week. I literally would rather clean the bathroom than go to priesthood meeting. Nice to know I’m not alone. A couple of times a year, there is a truly insightful talk or lesson, but other than that . . . . .
