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That’s fair. (And of course, as I said, it was a story that I “heard”.) However, I have even bigger information to share. Due to the ever increasing demand (and other circumstances that I’m aware of), ALL 4 VIDEO SEGMENTS of Blacks in the Scriptures are now available online at:
http://blacksinthescriptures.com/in-the-news/ This may be for a limited time – maybe until the election is over and the Church may be under ‘less’ scrutiny at that point. Anyway, it is there for your edification and learning. Enjoy!
cwald wrote:First, I am glad the church is finally waking up and recognizing there is a problem. That is a good thing.
Second…I have not listened to the DVD….but I have to say, the Law of Common Consent is one if the most dishonest apologetic responses EVER for ANY issue.
It is an insult of the worst kind for the LDS church to use it to defend their position, and/or their mistakes.
PS…don’t understand what I am saying…read my signature.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
I completely agree. It’s not a reason to have let this go on, but it is a reason WHY it went on for so long. The bretheren were NEVER united on this issue until Spencer W. Kimball was president of the church.
I remember hearing a story (so take it for what it’s worth) that President Harold B. Lee was out of town, and the remaining 1st Presidency and Qof12 met to discuss the issue – and it was unanimous for them… until President Lee returned. He said “NOT while I’M President of the Church!” He passed away 6 months later.
Thank you. This information is provided exactly for the reason I mentioned – for others to learn and process for their own experience. The DVD segments will be made available on the blacksinthescriptures.com website as this is a new experiment to get the message out. So pretty soon, you may not have to pay anything to view the information.
On the forum that I moderate, at least once a month, a forum member will ask about what certain scriptures mean, LDS Church history and Official Declaration 2. I have normally participated (sometimes got kinda ‘heated’) in such threads. These are real concerns because it’s not just a race issue… it’s the core of our doctrine and beliefs. We believe in living prophets and that this is the restored and true church of Jesus Christ.
As a member of the African American Outreach Program – a member-missionary proselyting program organized by Brother Perkins, I help assist members who have such questions. I have been privileged to help a few enter the waters of baptism – both online and offline.
My mother grew up in the Church. She always had questions about this issue. When she was in an LDS bookstore, she saw a copy of the Blacks in the Scriptures DVDs. She picked it up and saw the sticker price ($40)… and promptly put it back. The spirit told her, “You’ve been looking for answers on this issue your whole life… and you’re going to let $40 stop you?” She bought it.
I believe that when the members are thirsty enough for the knowledge, just as a non-member becomes thirsty for the gospel, then that member is ready to hear this message. There isn’t anything that I or anyone else can say until one is ready to hear it.
This DVD series has been instrumental in helping members and investigators to understand what the brethren want us to understand in the scriptures and to have a resource to turn to when they “hear something”.
The intention of the DVD series is so that the message can be communicated in a uniformed way, each and every time.
The fact that this issue exists is another proof that the church is true. There will ALWAYS be a reason to doubt the church – whether it is polygamy, the authenticity of The Book of Mormon or any other matter. This particular matter is a big one… and there are answers to help those with a searching heart.
Now, is this “official” from the Church? No. It is not produced by the church. However, all General Authority images are used with permission (actual disclosure on the DVD case). The church has never discouraged the distribution of these presentations.
When you click the link below, there’s a “download” button at the top right side.
https://www.box.com/s/9681efeff27a16833692 In addition, you can start a new thread, you can contact me via PM, you can also contact the Blacks in the Scriptures website and ask your questions directly to Marvin Perkins. (He often has better answers than I come up with as well.)
After studying these things out in your mind (D&C 9:7-9), please pray about what you have learned. Don’t take my word, or Brother Perkin’s word. Just because he’s on a DVD doesn’t mean that it’s “absolutely correct”. (Playing devil’s advocate here.)
This is not the only information on the subject. There are others. However, this seems to be the easiest to share, and the most comprehensive in the presentation of the material.
It is my testimony that as many can be touched by this message and can share the truths of it with others, the more souls we can bring into the Gospel and bring a spirit of clarity and love, where there once was darkness and confusion.
skippy740
Note: Should you decide to purchase the DVD, I have no financial involvement in the Blacks in the Scriptures website. Please also know that staylds.com has no connection to the Blacks in the Scriptures website.
Additional Resources:
In addition, as it was discussed previously on the forum, the link below is to the article by Edward L. Kimball about how the 1978 revelation on the priesthood came about. At the time of this post, the article is free. Just click on the PDF logo.
https://byustudies.byu.edu/showTitle.aspx?title=7885 This is a recent LIVE fireside held in October, 2011. This is an audio recording only, and it’s pretty long… but it shows a live interaction with the congregation. This is a MUST LISTEN! Very conversational and less ‘lecture’ style. Yes, it’s 3 hours long… but it’s GOOD!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFWxqTUONOA The Doctrine of Christ – D. Todd Christofferson, April, 2012 General Conference
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2012/04/the-doctrine-of-christ?lang=eng Couple of highlights:
Quote:At the same time it should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such.”5
Quote:President Clark, quoted earlier, observed:
“To this point runs a simple story my father told me as a boy, I do not know on what authority, but it illustrates the point. His story was that during the excitement incident to the coming of [Johnston’s] Army, Brother Brigham preached to the people in a morning meeting a sermon vibrant with defiance to the approaching army, and declaring an intention to oppose and drive them back.
In the afternoon meeting he arose and said that Brigham Young had been talking in the morning, but the Lord was going to talk now. He then delivered an address, the tempo of which was the opposite from the morning talk. …
“… The Church will know by the testimony of the Holy Ghost in the body of the members, whether the brethren in voicing their views are ‘moved upon by the Holy Ghost’; and in due time that knowledge will be made manifest.”6
The Church issued two official statements regarding racism, both inside and outside of the church:
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/race-church Changes on LDS.org in regards to chapter headings and footnotes:
http://www.blacklds.org/changes-to-lds-scripture-headings-footnotes Address by Bruce R. McConkie where he said “Forget everything I have said…”
http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=11017 The Law of Common Consent within the LDS Church: (If you listen to the live fireside recording in Nevada, you’ll see how this fits into the topic)
http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctrine-and-covenants-institute-student-manual/dc-in-021-26.asp Well, my EQ lesson briefly touched on Elder Christofferson’s talk, but my lesson was on how we can do a better job of bringing African American’s into the church. I taped it to share it with the African American Outreach Program, but I feel that I can share it here as well.
It’s about 40 mintues.
Heber13 wrote:Those are good responses, skippy.
Regarding the LGBT response, I’m almost there with you, maybe two yrs ago that’s where I was too, but I have recently wondered why the change to marriage definitions would be harmful or dangerous. If two other adults want to call themselves married, why does that impact me and my family? I don’t see that it does.
Regarding the standard answer, that the gospel is perfect, the church isn’t…it always comes down to what you define the gospel as. Some include the ordinances in the gospel. I cant see they are “perfect” and they are certainly not unchanging. The struggle is that even if the gospel is perfect, we see through a glass darkly, all of us, even the prophets and apostles, so I don’t know in this life if we ever really know what that perfect gospel is.
I think the church is there to help us try to see it more clearly, but it is a lifelong pursuit to try to understand it.
Therefore, that standad answer is not sufficient or comforting, in my opinion. It is just what people at church like to say to try to hang on to certainty amid an uncertain and imperfect church.
Thank you. I’m still working that part out for myself. Right now, I wish it would all be simply ‘done with’ as I’m tired of hearing about people’s sexuality. That’s also why I phrased my answer the way I did – it’s a sin for those who have been exposed to the laws of the Lord. Those who don’t know the law (or simply don’t care), let them live the way they want. Missionary work will still go forward and can then be the time for others to determine how they want to live.
As far as ordinances, they seem to change on a regular basis. I know that the endowment back in Joseph Smith’s time would take a full day. Now it’s just about an hour. Obviously it has been changed and continues to be updated.
In my mind, the gospel is a feeling. Some (many) make it out to be a “checklist of obedience”. The idea is ‘if you’re living the gospel’, you’re doing the following on a regular basis: personal prayer, couple prayer, family prayers, prayers over meals, personal scripture study, couple scripture study, family scripture study, family home evening, cleaning the church building, doing your home teaching, having ‘ppi’s’ with your kids every Sunday, visiting the sick, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc., etc., etc.
This “obedience checklist” is one reason why those NOT in our faith look at us and say that we’re trying to ‘save ourselves’ through our works. No one can do it all, do it consistently and continue to have the gospel in their lives. Christ said that his yoke is easy and his burden is light. But if you try to live by the “checklist”, you’re adding to your burden – particularly if you feel compelled in any way to do these things.
seeker wrote:However, doubts have surfaced in my mind about the origins of the Book of Mormon, women’s roles in the Church, and the Church’s stances on gay marriage and homosexuality.
Here’s the ‘staple’ answer: The gospel is perfect; the church is not.
You may be surprised to know that many of the things we have in the church are man-made or inspired by other member’s examples.
I was reading a post on the other forum asking if the Sunday School President has to be a man/priesthood holder. I don’t recall anything in the D&C about that, but others were quick to point out that ‘yes, it does’. Yet, Sunday School was organized by members and then ‘adopted’ as an official auxiliary later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_School_(LDS_Church) Quote:The first formal Sunday School in the LDS Church was held on December 9, 1850 in Salt Lake City under the direction of Richard Ballantyne, a former Sunday School teacher in the Relief Presbyterian Church in Scotland. Lacking a suitable building to hold the meeting in, Ballantyne invited his students into his own home; approximately thirty Latter-day Saint children between the ages of 8 and 14 attended. The local congregation that Ballantyne belonged to—the Salt Lake City Fourteenth Ward—quickly adopted Ballantyne’s Sunday School program and integrated it with regular Sunday meetings. Other LDS congregations followed the Fourteenth Ward’s example and adopted Sunday School programs based on the Ballantyne model. At this stage, each Sunday School was completely autonomous and under the sole direction of the local bishop.
So, in my mind, the Sunday School could be led by anyone who was called by those in authority.
As far as origins of The Book of Mormon… well, I encourage you to get out of it what you need and continue to grow your faith.
For gay marriage & homosexuality, it’s a difficult subject. I do know that it is a sin for those who are exposed to the laws of the Lord. I know we need to treat everyone with pure love and kindness. I love all people as individuals, but I must admit to not liking the LGBT political movement. I have a childhood friend who is now in a civil union with another man. He’s a good person, but no longer active in the church. I was glad for his decision and told him that I wish everyone to find happiness where they can find it – and that I simply don’t like the political movements. He seemed to appreciate that sentiment – to show that I’m not a ‘LGBT hateful LDS’ person that the media could make us out to be, yet I stand in the faith of how I choose to vote for the laws of the land.
On this particular topic, my stance is this: Don’t change the definition of marriage. However, if there are ANY laws that show more favoritism towards ‘married’ couples versus civil unions, I will help and vote to change those laws. Just don’t change the definition of marriage. Well, that seems to be where the LGBT movement wants to go – to change the definition of marriage to include same-sex couples. I can support everything up to that point.
That’s just me – and I don’t know if that helps, but I hope it does.
Mike wrote:Welcome to this forum Skippy!
I too would like to understand more about your life, experiences & circumstances.
This is a good place to discuss any topic related to the gospel & our own life situations.
Mike from Milton.
I served my mission in the Tennessee Knoxville Mission – 1999-2001. Currently separated from my wife & kids, but working towards reconciliation. So yeah, I’m not living the “church model” of success so far in my life.
Roy wrote:Welcome Skippy,
I am interested in learning a little more about you. How was your upbringing? Are you married? Kids? I assume that you are male? What drives you to participate on the web? What benefits have you derived from your participation on LDS.net? I ask because I’d like to humanize you in my mind.
I look forward to your participation here.
Roy
I was raised in the church by a convert father and a lifelong member mother.
I am married, but I’ve been separated from my wife and 3 kids for 2.5 years now. Working on getting back together again.
I’ve participated in various discussion forums online over the past 10 years, so it’s kinda habit for me to share my own thoughts online.
On LDS.net, the benefits have been to do “subject matter gospel study”. A question is posed and it forces me to think about it and how I would respond or where I would go to find the answers. With my involvement in the AAOP (African American Outreach Program), I was able to help 1 sister become re-activated without any further doubts on the teachings of the church… and 1 baptism.
wayfarer wrote:We stayLDS because of a lot of reasons, and I would say that one of them is not a need to be convinced the Church is true. I have my own
testimonySo, as I would not post my unorthodox views on lds.net, sometimes the highly orthodox position is not always received well here in response to our challenges in navigating the middle way. Does that make sense to you? It’s just a suggestion.
I look forward to hearing your story of how you navigate faith when some of the things you’re taught are not literally true. Or is that inconsistent with your experience?
again, welcome.
I can really appreciate that. Although I’m a mod over there, it’s not like I haven’t disagreed with how the forum is moderated. While the focus is in following the Lord, I’ve wished at times that we would be more tolerant of other’s points of view. From the “orthodox” viewpoint – I’d rather see a smoker attend church every week smelling of cigarettes than to not come at all. I’ve heard it said that if we were doing our job right as missionaries, our chapels would all smell of cigarettes – for helping to bring others to the gospel.
I like trying to help others to find their own compromises and solutions. We are all to be students of the gospel, not blind followers. We all can study things out and make our own decisions. Sometimes our decisions may clash with traditional teachings – and so we need to seek help to reconcile these things.
I wish LDS.net was a little more open to such discussion, while keeping the focus on gospel and church activity.
Not sure I have much of anything to offer. I know I can’t fully imagine feeling that way. That said, regardless of where you are heading towards, you need that feeling of ‘belonging’.
Are there any associations that you have considered joining in the past?
– toastmasters?
– boy scouts (chartered by another organization)?
– professional associations?
– chamber of commerce?
– Masonry? (Perhaps a somewhat controversial idea, but it’s a religious fraternity rather than a religion)
You need something to join – and probably nothing religious at the moment. But find something worthwhile to do with your time and even become a leader within the organizations themselves. This may help.
That’s probably all I’ve got. Hope it helps some!
mormonheretic wrote:I just posted a transcript at W&T asking if an apology for the ban is appropriate. Brad Kramer and Marguerite Driessen both think that an apology isn’t necessary, but for different reasons. Marguerite feels that an institution can’t apologize, only people can. Brad on the other hand, says an apology isn’t neccesary for the repentance process, but feels that the church should come clean about the ban and say that it was wrong. Here’s the link:
http://www.wheatandtares.org/2012/06/11/should-the-church-apologize-for-the-ban/ What do you think?
I’m on the fence. I want the Church to issue a statement that clarifies correct doctrines. At the same time, the ‘anti’s’ would have a field-day. The saints who may just be “hanging on” may fall away.
I think there is too much “trust in the arm of flesh” – both past and present.
I’m not holding my breath for an apology, but having correct doctrines being taught in an official statement would go a long way.
Old-Timer wrote:Welcome, skippy – as long as you do play by the rules.
Do you want to share what other forum you help moderate – and what, exactly, brought you here?
I’m a moderator at lds.net.
There was an article posted there that was in the Washington Times (I think) that talked about Mormons turning online who had doubts and it discussed this forum. So I decided to register and participate in the online discussions.
I’m also a part of the African American Outreach Program – a member missionary program organized by Brother Marvin Perkins – to help bring and strengthen African Americans into the church. In fact, I’m preparing a lesson for EQ this Sunday on this very topic – using only the scriptures as our guide. So I have some unique resources to share in that regard.
