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Joni, I totally agree with this. I have started just throwing them away now too. Which for some reason was very liberating! I was actually really annoyed with that video because I had been told how sacred they were and that we don’t show them to people. I was also taught to cut out the symbols and burn them. The video made all of that frustrating to me. Guess they aren’t that sacred anymore. But, like Ann, I still wear them and most of the time, but I really wish I could just stop. Partly habit, partly family garment checking , I just can’t bring myself to completely be done with them. So I take that as a sign I am not quite ready. But I am so bloody hot already this summer, dang layers!

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This is just all so new to me. I have always been a yes person. Never in my life have I ever even considered saying no. I hate confrontation for one, which can get me in trouble, but I avoid like the plague just to not have to be confronted with anything. Haha.

I have to admit, the only reason I am at church right now is because of DH and the kids. I don’t want to spend Sunday away from my family. That’s what Sunday is for. I do love to serve in the church, but after teaching seminary, church history, this last year during my FC, I am super terrified to end up having to do that again. I LOVED those kids but I had to tweak lessons and that was really hard on me mentally. Youth callings are absolutely where I belong, but I don’t like making parents uncomfortable.

Dark Jedi-you have no idea how sad I am to leave this place. It was where I needed to be to go through this time in my life. Such an understanding area when it comes to faith!! Way less black and white thinking out here.

Will a bishop understand me saying no callings for now? I hate being a project, that’s just a lot of uncomfortable confrontation!!!! Thanks guys, I am sure staylds will be my home for a long time to come!!

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So I finished this book a few days ago and I have to say it really has changed me. I haven’t read a book this fast in long time! With all that has been going on around us in the media about Caitlyn Jenner, with all and the vile words spoken by followers of Christ, I had really gotten down. I was so glad to have a new sort of perspective from this book. Let me make this clear, that the book does not talk about transgendered people or any of the hot button issues that pop up in the media today. It talks more generally about people and what motivates them, and how we all of us separate ourselves from God, religious and irreligious alike. It talks about how we either relate to the prodigal son, or the older brother, or are in the process of jumpingfrom one to the other. I’m sorry, I am going to butcher this review, but please don’t let that deter you from reading the book! I am just a horrible writer.

So first off, I learned that the parable was never intended for us to focus solely on the lost son. It was intended for us to focus on the elder brother, the truly religious, the ones who felt like they had always done what was right. The author argues that the very religious tend to have a hard time with the acceptance of true forgiveness for someone like the lost son, because they don’t deserve it. But then he goes on to say that these elder brother types are also turning away from the Lord as effectively and surely as their prodigal counterparts by believing they are, like elder uchtdorf talked about, earning their way in to heaven. By taking responsibility for salvation on themselves they reject the salvation offered by the Lord. Here is a quote from the book I loved:

“The Savior does not divide the world into the moral good guys and the immoral bad guys. Everyone is dedicated to a project of self salvation. Using others and God to get power and control for themselves. We are just going about it in different ways. Even though both sons are wrong, the father invites them both into his care and feast. Jesus’s gospel is a different message of spirituality. It is not religion or irreligion…it is something else altogether. It is distinct from the other two approaches. In its view, everyone is wrong, everyone is loved, and everyone is called to recognize this and change.”

He says the prodigal son part of the story ends with a happy ending and that prodigal sons frequently find their way through difficult decisions back to the Lord. Jesus taught that it is easier for a sinner to make it to heaven than the proud, after all. He says it’s interesting that the story of the elder brother ends only with an invitation–an invitation to join the party, or eternal life, as I like to think of it. The parable ends without us knowing what the elder brother chooses. The author states that Jesus was inviting the Pharisees to make a choice. “The publicans and sinners have come to the feast, won’t you?” Obviously the Pharisees hated this story because Jesus was teaching that they were just as sinful as younger brother, and also that they had less of a chance returning to God. Ultimately it left me wondering which son I am today, and how am I responding to His invitation to join the feast.

Please forgive the awful review, but I would love it if someone else read it and gave another review!

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I am at a point when you start feeling like you are living a lie. None of my family knows how much I struggle with the church, besides DH, but I feel like I am in hiding all of the time. I am definitely not saying that you should be telling your unorthodox opinions in SS, but when should you be more authentic with family? Will they feel betrayed that you hadn’t opened up to them and shared your truth? I think it’s a fine line and it’s a difficult line to walk when you are feeling alone, especially when all friends and family are TBM.

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This makes me so sad! I’m sorry you had this experience and I am also sorry for your friend because heaven forbid this happens to her. We understand your pain here. Maybe you could write her a nice letter where you could get the chance to explain yourself without interruption. Not sure if it would help her or not, but at least you might feel heard? Good luck at church today. Will be thinking of you. Hugs

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Haha. So true!

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nibbler wrote:

A while back, while trying to make a point about prophet infallibility, I actually asked DW: “What if tomorrow TSM asked all members to move to Moose Lake, Alberta, Canada? Would you go?”

😳

Come on nibbler, it isn’t that bad out there! I’m moving only 3 hours from there in a few weeks. Now a call to Utah, might be a tougher one for me. I would have to say no

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In his talk on Sunday night he talks about where your testimony falls on the faith spectrum. I didn’t listen to the talk yet, but I am not sure I really care to. My link is a summary of what he talks about

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https://www.lds.org/church/news/print/desire-is-key-to-testimony-elder-robbins-tells-young-adults?lang=eng

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Im really torn about this! I personally hate getting visits because I feel like it is another time drain. Especially since it seems sundays are the popular day and the last sunday of the month which DH is also trying to get his done. In regards to VTing, our RSP said that her biggest problem was the younger women in the ward–which included me. Im terrible at it. She was trying to figure out how to get us to do it more often, and I got a few nasty emails and a nice call out during Relief society. It only pushes me to not want to do it more. I am terrible, I feel horribly guilty about it, but I cant seem to get it done. I just dont understand why we can’t visit those that we have relationships with and then add on a sister who needs some friends or is in need in another way. I find then our burden would be lessened and we could really focus on these needs. My friends would call me if they had any problems anyway, and then this extra sister would get the attention she needs. I don’t know, I just find when I get a list of women I have nothing in common with or a companion you have nothing in common with, it just doesnt ever work. I feel also that all these extra meal things are overburdening people. Im sorry, when did all of a sudden a woman need a months worth of meals because she had a baby? Did she not know for 9 months that this was coming? What happened to self-reliance and maybe getting the baby daddy to make a meal? Over time I have become a little annoyed and have stopped enjoying helping others out, it has become too much. I sound like a total jerk, but I really love people, I just hate the over asking! So I do wish that some changes to home teaching and visiting teaching were made. I wish we could make it less about stats and more about people and their needs. I get the march email saying “super important month for VTing, please get it done”. YIKES I would like to assess needs and then meet them. Like the single mother, YES, she needs more help!! Where as I need very little at the moment, so use my VTers to help with the single mom! Ramblings of a crazy woman here! haha

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Roy wrote:

FWIW, this is what I do also. I use my spirit to filter out what works for me and what fills my soul with meaning. Always with the caveat that what works for me is not necessarily a more accurate representation of the afterlife and that what works for me will not necessarily work for anyone else. I have had to get comfortable with the prospect of being totally wrong. My approach is not about being right anyway but rather about crafting the best way for me to get through this life and helping others along the way. Morminism does a pretty decent job at that for many, many people that I love and respect.

Thank you for this. It helps to know that there is a way to do this, to navigate my thoughts and still StayLDS.

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SilentDawning wrote:

Roy wrote:

I just think it is worthwhile to be realistic about the current state of orthodoxy in the church.

I think the part in bold above implies that even our understanding of doctrine can cultural, and not absolute. Without any firm statement of what is doctrine (other than the ambiguous “what is in the Holy Scriptures” I believe we are subject to many whims and beliefs of men who happen to have influence at any given time in the church. Sure, there are bedrock doctrinal principles (like the need for baptism, Go Holy Ghost, etcetera, but in the areas where there isn’t a lot of definition, personal interpretations can become near doctrine for certain generations.

I think my problem with the current orthodoxy of the church, is that I now have no idea when it will change. I am really struggling with this idea right now. All of a sudden the current state can be the past state and now this is our current state. Am I making any sense??

Old-Timer wrote:

That is true, SD . . . but I don’t want a firm statement. I would rather have space to govern myself, including my own mind.

I am with Ray on this one. I don’t know that having a firm statement would help me, because I would then question whether this “firm statement” would stay the “firm statement”. I am in perpetual confusion right now. :crazy: I am very quiet about how I feel, I only really open up on this site because I am so scared of judgment of others. I am scared to lose friends, lose peoples confidence, and lose peoples trust. I am currently looked at as very much TBM and a lot of people look so forward to my comments in church and in my sacrament talks. I have been very quiet lately and I can tell people are noticing, but I am always worried I will cause TBM’s to see me as someone that isnt toeing the line and someone to watch out for.

So, I am going to ignore what current orthodoxy I don’t like and believe in progression across kingdoms. And, for a while I will keep that to myself.

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DarkJedi wrote:

My SP says those stake conference broadcasts don’t happen anymore, Nibbler. We already had our stake conference last month, this meeting was additional but was essentially a stake conference (and Elder Kacher, conducting, introduced it as such). My SP is well aware of how the old meetings were not well liked and those were recorded and played for multiple stake conference. This meeting took in all 120-some stakes in the North America Northeast Area, and it looked live but could have been recorded – there not any conclusive evidence either way. Some parts of some talks were specifically about this area though – membership and temple updates and so forth.

I was pretty bummed when I found out we were having a second stake conference, I was at the same one DJ is talking about. These broadcast ones are really hard for me because they seem so impersonal and incredibly dull. I wish I could help you out with what was talked about, but unfortunately I tuned out as soon as they were talking about Isis and Muslims. It wasnt because I was offended, but I didnt have the energy to listen anymore. I had planned to stay home, but last minute I got ready so I could attend with DH and the kids. I am glad I went with the family, but I didnt hear too much of it. DH said sister Reeves’ voice was especially breathy. haha

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DarkJedi wrote:

Dieter F. Uchtdorf (emphasis added):

Quote:

I marvel to think that the Son of God would condescend to save us, as imperfect, impure, mistake-prone, and ungrateful as we often are. I have tried to understand the Savior’s Atonement with my finite mind, and the only explanation I can come up with is this: God loves us deeply, perfectly, and everlastingly. I cannot even begin to estimate “the breadth, and length, and depth, and height … [of] the love of Christ.

Thank you for this! This almost made me cry–thank goodness I didnt since the kids guitar teacher is here. This was very helpful to me today. I have been struggling so much with my finite mind lately and hoping that God is merciful enough to accept me when I have been failing so miserably lately. I just miss my old life and having a pity party about it.

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DH and I were just talking about this last night. I just dont believe in a God that will not allow us to progress after judgement. What happened to God being the same yesterday, today and forever? I believe in that God. I believe in a God that is loving and is like my Dad. Who would never shun me and say, sorry, you were a big idiot on earth and so now I will never see you again. If before this life we progressed, in this life we progress, I dont believe it just stops all of a sudden. I believe we keep progressing and I choose to believe that we can move up in the kingdoms. I choose not to believe in the God D&C speaks of in those scriptures SilentDawning used. There is no other substantiating evidence in my eyes other than those couple scriptures, and so I believe we just don’t have the answers right now. The merciful God Joseph describes, where he said we cannot even comprehend how merciful He is, thats who I believe in. I just have to. Or else my testimony string will break.

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