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nibbler wrote:
I feel certain that if, in our homes, parents will read from the Book of Mormon prayerfully and regularly, both by themselves and with their children, the spirit of complaining bitterly about having to read scripture will come to permeate our homes and all who dwell therein.
:angel: Nibbler, this was a tradition in my childhood, that I have proudly passed on to my family
Heber–I totally agree with you. I think it’s the reading of good books that does indeed help fulfill the promise ETB speaks of. Doing those things as families helps common values permeate our homes. I’m fine with parts of the BofM making into that rotation.
DarkJedi wrote:
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to vent, Startpoor.You’re welcome. Admittedly, my ward’s BofM lesson didn’t mention this quote. It was all sorts of other madness.
Old-Timer wrote:What works for some people doesn’t work for others – but most people don’t understand that, even some prophets.
In his defense, he did say, “I feel certain . . .”
That isn’t a promise, no matter how much too many members think it is. I don’t defend Pres. Benson very often (okay, almost never), but there is NOTHING inaccurate in what he actually said. He did feel certain about it – and he was right for many members but wrong for many others.
Also, to be as blunt as possible, I think the title of this post is just as inaccurate as the accuracy of the quote being discussed. I think to say that Mormonism boils down to being blessed for reading the Book of Mormon is incredibly simplistic and wrong – kind of the polar opposite mirror-image of the quote in question.
If we condemn or criticize hyperbole from others, we ought not use it ourselves.
Benson’s quote wasn’t intended to be hyperbole, he meant it, and whether it was a promise or not, it has taken on a life of its own and has become such by well meaning members and leaders. Pardon my title, but I really cannot think of a “promise/teaching” that has influenced the culture of Mormonism more than that one. What surprises me is how many members will “admit” this in one way or another. My dad’s advice to me when going through my FC, is “everybody knows about this stuff, but nobody cares. Just do what you’re supposed to and you’ll be happier.” A member in my ward told me he knows there are historical issues but he willfully ignores them to maintain peace in his marriage. I put off serious study for the same reason. The bulk of DW’s testimony comes from the fulfillment of his quote. It has become a member fulfilled prophecy!
Great job!!! You just can’t know what doubters go through unless you’ve been through it yourself, that’s what makes this conversation so challenging. If they didn’t seem real receptive now, just wait till people start coming to them for help. I don’t know what level of training the leaders in our area get, but a bishop gave a talk about doubt at our last stake conf and talked about the essays, and named the url. That said, I still hear “pray and obey” from the area authorities. Somehow Elder U’s message isn’t getting out like it ought to. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
“…in this quest to seek and find God in all things there is still an area of uncertainty. There must be. If a person says that he met God with total certainty and is not touched by a margin of uncertainty, then this is not good. For me, this is an important key. If one has the answers to all the questions—that is the proof that God is not with him. It means that he is a false prophet using religion for himself. The great leaders of the people of God, like Moses, have always left room for doubt. You must leave room for the Lord, not for our certainties; we must be humble. Uncertainty is in every true discernment that is open to finding confirmation in spiritual consolation.” -Pope Francis I realize it’s easy to take pot shots at Bednar or his statement regarding doubt. I just had to post this to bring balance back to the Force.
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Mrs. SuperChicken wrote:Elder Bednar said we could have questions but never doubts which he defined as being cynical, disbelieving and mistrusting. Doubts mean there is something wrong with us. Sister Bednar then talked about how there are just no answers to some things so we should stop looking and instead start asking the right questions. This really contradicts their other responses where they encouraged people to search for answers. She said that God will just not answer some questions because they are not important, even if we think they are important. She did not define which types of questions she and God thought were the right ones to ask.
Did anyone else watch this. It is pretty long. What did you think of about it.
[url]Thanks for all the very good thoughts. I had an email typed up, just to get my thoughts out in case I decided to send it to my friend. But after processing it, I think I will go forward without any open declaration of disbelief, for as was worded above, I am still a believing member: I believe in truth, love, prayer and much else. My disbelief is still important to me–it is a part of me that is valuable. But I think sharing it, in this case may be more harmful to the friend. I can keep it to myself. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hawkgrrrl wrote:It was one of those rare times when I couldn’t shield my kids from stuff that I know is not going to fly. I had to try to defend the indefensible, but c’mon. Nelson didn’t exactly give me much to work with. It was not good.
Ah yes, the infamous Elder Nelson wardrobe malfunction of ’07. One of the many dangers of live conference streaming [emoji1][emoji1][emoji1]
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If you’re looking for less critical I think fairlds has a decent board. It’s not my personal cup of tea, but the conversation can be pretty open and there’s some good advice given. Probably more on the faithful scale than here, but not anti-doubt either. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I met Scott in person twice, and was shocked to find just how different he was when speaking at a local meeting. None of the dry, uber serious talks like he is known for at GC. The talks he gave were touching, witty, and funny. No talk of chastity, just stories of inspirational people putting others before self. I wish more people got to see this side of him. I will miss him. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That’s a good step forward. Of course there are things I could be critical about regarding the contents of the list, but really, props are in order for legitimizing the issues. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don’t understand the apologists position on this one. They want us to believe 132 was spoken by God, AND they want us to believe JS was acting in accordance to Gods commands? How can any sane person believe both of those things? They should be thanking you for giving folks a reasonable way out of that conundrum. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good topic! I put off reading mine for a long time when I hit my FC. I just couldn’t face the fact that my mind might tear down something so personal to me. I didn’t want to put it to rest like I did with other things. Finally, at the behest of my wife, I read it. It was one of the few spiritual experiences I’ve had with regards to the church lately. I can’t really explain it. PB’s don’t make much sense to me, but mine says some really good stuff, much of it that has taken on a whole new meaning post FC. I don’t remember many of the specifics, but most of it has to do with helping and serving others in different capacities, finding fulfillment in my career, teaching people. All of it very relevant to me right now. No specific promises like other people’s. It says to me that PB’s, can be inspired, though probably not all are. Who knows what some patriarchs are thinking. The one in my stake is very down to earth (not the one who gave mine) and is very clear about what a patriarch is and isn’t. Anywho, I think I’ll have to read it again soon. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes. I find it much harder to be friends with other members than I used to. Hard to have a deep conversation even with well meaning people. In these times, reading books, watching tv, or other things I keep myself distracted with don’t appeal anymore. Sorry you’re feeling this way. I haven’t found anything that helps. Except time. Things move on and I find my need for deep conversation either resolved through talking with someone or through the desire going away again. Good luck. God bless. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is almost my exact situation. Uncanny. Only you are a few steps ahead(?) of where I am. My inquisitive 7 year old son who expresses doubt about God and hates church is also a couple short months from baptism. He has expressed that he either doesn’t want to or doesn’t care. I am totally going to be held responsible for this by DW. However, my wife is not having a FC, and I am not visiting other churches. I brought up the idea a while ago, truly believing that DS would be more open to spirituality elsewhere. Didn’t go well… So we take him to church each Sunday at our local LDS ward, and he continues to resist it. Anyway, I envy your freedom to explore other religions and would encourage you to go ahead and take your son to a place that speaks to him. He can still get good things from our church, so if it is not a good thing for you and your extended family right now, he will probably be well enough off. Good luck!!!
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Keither, That has been my exact experience with my wife. It’s been a terrible journey so far. Like yours, my wife was liberal, pro gay marriage, and slightly unorthodox. But she dug in her heels hard when I expressed doubts. At first I thought it was because she thought she was losing her forever family and that she actually believed in the literal true church in a TBM way. More recently I realized that it probably has more to do with the expectation that women in the church carry with them to be perfect, to have perfect families, to be the one who steps in to make their husbands and their kids perfect. I believe this because I know she still is troubled by gay member mistreatment and is weary of Joseph Smith. She knows deep inside that the church has issues, and basically agrees with me on an intellectual level about church historicity. But emotionally, church is where she feels safe, and right now, when she feels threatened, she wants to find safer, secured harbor.
I found the following helpful, from a females perspective on another board:
“1. Although men grow up with the pressure of the priesthood, women group up with the pressure to perfect. Perfect themselves, their future, their future children, their future spouse.
2. As girls we are taught to respect and obey our parents, our Heavenly Father, and thanks to the Proclamation of the Family …our husband.
3. We are (generally speaking) pleasers and loyal supporters in large part due to the conditioning of growing up in the church.
4. We learn from Primary to Young Women to Relief Society to sustained our priesthood holders, and abide by and receive council from them. BUT we are also taught that if they are not doing the Lord’s will, it is up to us to be their strength through prayer and fasting, reading scriptures, and perfecting ourselves to help them find the way. I can recount MANY lessons that give the message to women in the church that they are not only responsible for their children’s eternal happiness, but their husband’s eternal happiness as well…because after all —isn’t that what we were created for?”
So be patient and help her feel secure with this adjustment, and hopefully, eventually, she will be at peace with it and you can move forward together.
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