Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Lots of spin in that article. Such as this part: Quote:“As Dehlin’s influence grew, he initiated organizations around the United States and other parts of the world known as “chapters” of his Mormon Stories organization. “Mormon Stories Retreats” were also initiated. These chapters and retreats encouraged individuals who were in the process of leaving the Church and abandoning their faith to gather together for support as opposed to turning to Church leaders for spiritual counsel and support. Testimonials of disbelief were common in such meetings, and the organization served to provide a church-like setting so as to ease the social aspects of departure from the faith.”
My favorite part: “as opposed to turning to Church leaders for spiritual counsel and support. ”
Don’t think I need to add explanation to that one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bear wrote:Ray, i am curious. When and how did John cross the line over and over again? I haven’t followed him activity but I see his fb stuff in my feed and nothing really strikes me as “over the line”. It’s been a while since I listened to his podcasts. I definitely noticed a more bitter attitude towards the church towards his newer podcasts. Not trying to come across negative about your post, I’m just curious when/how JD crossed the line.
Bear, I think it’s fb posts like this one that cross the line from discussing viewpoints openly and just being critical:
“Calling the Book of Mormon “Bible Fan Fiction” makes perfect sense to me. It’s almost the best 3 words I can muster to describe exactly what the Book of Mormon is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction Your thoughts?”
He also has several FB posts with a mocking tone toward general authorities. I don’t think it matters who he interviews–that was the value of MoSto–that he could interview a blatantly anti-Mormon person and humanize them, then do the same with an apologist, or a fundamentalist. He sought to understand people who were different. It was good stuff. I don’t think it matters that he interview Sandra Tanner. In fact I really enjoyed that episode because he broke down the legend of “The Tanners” and brought it into the realm of thoughtful humans doing what they thought was right. However, where things went south was that he began more and more to side with the people he interviewed, and oppose others. It isn’t always this black and white, but I’m simplifying to make my point. Now instead of building bridges between believing and non-believing/struggling members, he has shifted his focus more toward helping those who are transitioning out. It’s still a worthy cause, but it is unfortunate that it has created such a schism.
Lookinghard, congrats on being overweight! 
Heber, absolutely. Probably not a blessing directly related to the WoW itself, but from earning my wife’s trust. It’s a pretty tangible way to show her I love her, and for her to see my efforts as such.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe not a big deal, but I appreciate you bringing it up. I didn’t think of trying to make the baptism a more intimate meeting. Maybe I can think of a way to express a desire that talks focus on Christ rather than the church without coming off too controlling. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I went last year to a U.U. church. It was a pretty cool experience. The first part of the meeting was for the kids, they pulled them up to the front and told them a story, then they all walked away to kids class while the sermon was given for the adults. It was a good sermon too. It hit me at a time when I couldn’t find meaning without god, but helped me see how I could find meaning whether I believed or not. I also had a good experience at a CofC church, which was kind of like a U.U. church except with open historical discussion about LDS history. They were super friendly and gave me hugs and had snacks to eat during the lesson. I refused their coffee and it came out that I was a “Brighamite.” Kind of funny, one of them said “Oh, you’re a Mormon!”
🙂 Up until then I didn’t know they didn’t refer to themselves as Mormons also. I was drawn in by their overwhelming respect for church historians, open and candid discussions, and their sense of advocating for civil rights.I wish I could visit other churches from time to time and expand my community. I am not in a position to do that right now. I strongly believe that there are churches out there that would actually help my son enjoy church, and therefore benefit from going. Our church’s primary is very childish and I don’t blame him for finding it boring. I did too when I was young.
Anyway, I don’t really have advice for you, I’m just envious that you have the freedom to try out other churches. Though I don’t think it’s bad to go to LDS church if you feel more comfortable going there. Nothing wrong with that.
Quick update: This is something I still struggle with to some degree. I stopped drinking it completely several weeks ago because it just was not okay for my marriage, no matter how much I justified it. Now that I have laid off, things in my marriage have improved a lot. I still haven’t mentally gotten past this issue, because I maintain that coffee and tea are both enjoyable to drink and come with good health benefits, and for me, help me study and engage better with the many people evaluating me in my program. My wife even knows that it makes no sense and acknowledges that, but is simply unable to permit it. I have taken advice from above posters and just supplemented with caffeine pills. Which does help some. Does it make any sense? No. Coffee and tea bad. When I drink herbal tea, I am asked: “does that have caffeine in it?” Diet Coke, good. Caffeine pills good. Decaf coffee okay? I don’t know because I don’t care enough to ask. Why would I pay $2 for a cup of coffee without getting a mental boost from it? I’ve heard that tannins in coffee are bad, but like most foods ie aspartame, that are proclaimed to be bad for you, it isn’t really. Unless you ingest loads of it in one sitting. Way more than you could get from drinking several pots of coffee. And no proven long term effects either. Anyway, I’m rambling. Just have to write down my thoughts sometimes. Anyone else going through a food crisis?
Sorry, my mistake. I think I was trying to be careful not to promote the unpopular idea of ones problems arising because one hasn’t prayed enough. Looks like I over generalized. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
E4M, I second the advice to respect you husband’s faith, and leave it pretty much at that. Build your marriage on something different. This takes time. If I may, I have a terribly difficult time respecting my wife’s current lds beliefs. But she’s not crazy, just stubbornly attached to her faith because it was always the one constant in her life. She’s still a progressive person in many other ways–supports gay marriage, bashes on obnoxiously orthodox testimonies, etc. But when I mention anything even remotely critical, it’s over, the Titanic has sunk and our marriage is being kept afloat by some passing flotsam. I hang on to victories when they come, but I am in no way trying to steer her away from the church. Just the other day we were having the missionaries over for dinner, and she jokingly said “I know it’s hard for you to support people who are spreading false truth. If it helps, I can send subliminal messages about the falseness they are spreading.”
Me: “Like telling them you found this recipe by peeping around online?”
her: “or ‘I just pulled the recipe out of a hat!'”
:angel: It’s the small things.
Seriously though, I empathize with your situation and have spent lots of time daydreaming. I have also spent time in counseling which helps. And, I know it’s not a popular thing here, but I have found it helps to pray as a couple. NOT because prayer magically fixes anything, but because the two of you are meditating and reaching out as one. It’s a way for you to show respect for his beliefs, and hopefully doesn’t violate your own integrity. Wishing you a better future
🙂 TA- my heart goes out to you. My marriage has been in some dark places as well and the pain you describe hit that same nerve again. My first marriage counselor was absolutely AWEFUL. If it was my first experience with counseling I would be very discouraged to try and find help again. But I had personal counseling in the past and knew there were better people out there. My second marriage counselor was much better. My wife just recently got started on personal therapy. Our marriage is far from perfect but these things help relieve some pressure and help me focus less on how stressful my marriage is and more on things that were neglected, like my kids. Please seek help. You are worth it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for your help, I think the simpler I make this lesson the better. I have a tendency to want to go for the touchdown FYI, my EQ had a fifth Sunday lesson a while back where mormonsandgays.com videos were shown. It was a well done lesson, and it got the discussion rolling somewhat.
mom3 wrote:
Also show this if you can – it’s Elder Christofferson talking about his families relationship with his actively gay brother.http://www.kutv.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/LDS-leader-uses-family-as-example-of-harmony-between-church-gays-72678.shtml#.VM_2btLy2M Lastly you could listen to DBMormon’s podcast with Elder Christofferson for ideas, too.
I think this is a great next step. Though I can’t find an interview with Christopherson on dbmormon’s podcast. Is it a premium episode?
Also, does anyone have specific advice regarding teaching about doubting members?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Awesome!!!!! Thanks for sharing I also am blessed with understanding leaders. On one occasion, my wife was in a TR interview and brought up gays because her LDS friends all agreed that they would never let their kids spend the night at a friends house if their parents were gay. The member of the SP interviewing her said he agreed with my wife and that gay parents are like any other parent and he would have No problem letting his kids stay the night in that situation. Stories like these fill my soul with hope.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Had a similar incident to Looking Hard’s, but it wasn’t me bearing the testimony. The first person to get up last F&T mtg bore a sincere testimony about how he doesn’t know, but loves the church. How he left and came back because of this love, but doesn’t have any “I know” experiences, and didn’t come back to church because of any new knowledge, but lives and serves within what beliefs he has. This was followed by an old timer who opened his Doctrine and Covenants and recited him the answer to how he could “know.” Which was followed by several other testimonies, including all the missionaries bearing that they did indeed know the church was true. So I guess it had the inadvertant benefit of strengthening the faith of our ward? Honestly, I didn’t even know what a testimony really was until halfway through my mission when my companion and I were invited to hear the public testimony of one of our not so serious investigators. She was a Christian and was going to be giving an informal testimony at a christian fellowship for youth. It wasn’t an attempt to convert us or argue with us, it was something they do once in a while to tell their story. I was interested to see how other Christians do this so I went–and it was a true definition of a testimony, how she was asked by some kids at school if she had let Jesus into her life, and how she prayed about it at a track meet behind a tree and felt elated, like she was floating, and how she had never felt an overflowing feeling of love like that up until that point. And how she decided she believed in Christ and wanted to follow him. years later, that’s what she was doing. Absent were the “I knows” and exclusive remarks. I was uplifted and influenced by this experience. Sure, she may be able to say that she knows the savior lives and loves her, but it would have made sense in her context. No “well, if I felt good about jesus, then I know that it must follow that the bible is inerrant and that my church is the true one.”
If I were to have formatted my testimonies after her pattern, mine would have gone something like this: “I was born into the LDS church, and taught throughout primary that it is the one and only true church. Then when I was a teenager I followed Moroni’s promise to see if the BofM was true and got no answer. Later in college I prayed about it and heard something say “you already know it is true so why are you asking me about it?” That experience inspired me to try and go to church every Sunday, prepare lessons at the last minute, read my scriptures once a week, and try not to watch R rated movies.”
I was pleased to see though, in the F&T mtg that a dad and his four kids got up, and each kid bore his or her testimony, saying what the dad was whispering in their ear–each started with “I want to bear my testimony, I love the church…”
🙂 🙂 🙂 I apologize for not reading the other comments in this thread before posting. My response to your opening question is: after reading RSR I realized that JS, whatever inspiration he may have had, started a movement that was heavily influenced by the world around him and included Calvinism, restoration doctrines from campbellism, folk magic, masonry and others. The other prophets of the world did the same thing. Buddhism and Sikhism grew out of Hinduism. Christianity and Islam grew out of Judaism. All these prophets have blessed the earth and speak wisdom and truth through their own culture. I encourage you to read broadly and discover their truths. Someday, years from now, come back to the book of Abraham or Moses and read it without the lens of a historical, literal document, but as scripture written by a prophet, who like a man, had the hubris to believe his writing was a translation of historical fact. Then you will find new meaning in it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
