[startpoor]

Thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed this story–I have only recently begun to carve a place for myself in the ward and it is a good feeling.

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[startpoor]

Lol, I love this group.

Old-Timer wrote:

I knew someone just like that. He was a very good man, but he was so wrapped up in his protector complex that it was hard for many people to see his goodness.

I have often been pleasantly surprised by most people I strongly disagree with. The dull, seemingly unintelligent EQ teacher who turns out to be a brilliant doctor, the hardline iron rodder who admits to occasionally praying to heavenly mother, the perfect TBM who admits to the quorum of having a porn addiction and going to weekly meetings. Doesn’t always go that way but it’s neat when it does. This individual does happen to be a good guy, so I was surprised to hear him talk like he was the ward policeman. Chalk it up to overzealousness I guess.

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[startpoor]

Halfway through. I wasn’t sure I would like these guys based on their introduction to the episode–they seemed a little one dimensional about religion–but the interview so far has been surprisingly professional, and seems like a win for serious religion. Thanks for sharing!

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[startpoor]

I hope this happens. I have an institute teacher who comes to campus once a week to teach in a school classroom, and every week he wears a white shirt and tie. It screams: “I am completely unrelateable!!!”

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[startpoor]

Shared this book with someone at church who is open minded, but I don’t think is going through any crisis of faith. He gave me overwhelmingly positive reviews. He said it opened his mind to the idea that we don’t have a monopoly on truth, and that it can be okay to disagree with a prophet of God. Selfishly I was really happy to hear that because those two things, I think, differentiate me as a member more than anything else, and it’s nice to have someone else to talk about those with. He is sharing it with his wife who also really likes it.

One thing I remember having a problem with early on in the book was just how much it places responsibility for our spiritual journey in our own hands. I thought it sided with the church too much. But I think in the end, taking responsibility means 1. Not blaming the church for my FC, which is hard to do, but keeps my anger at bay, but also 2. grants me the freedom to follow my own conscience when I disagree with a leader/scripture/talk.

My friend at church liked the personal responsibility aspect of the book because he said it gave him the responsibility to read more broadly, requiring a good member to read outside of the word of GA’s.

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[startpoor]

Ann, my ward is in an urban area in the Midwest. Pretty diverse makeup with a lot of professional and PhD students, and a large amount of people with low or no income. Very few established families. Still pretty conservative as a group, but I’m noticing individuals who are more liberal. Very few established families.

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[startpoor]

SD, no I wasn’t thinking of that–but I would love to be able to give a talk about that subject somehow. The people I talked to afterward seemed to be interested in that idea, and some told me they are more trusting of people who tell them there are no good answers.

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[startpoor]

I’ve actually been reading that book on and off for the last year. Many things have gotten in the way (including a not so well known series called a song of ice and fire [emoji6])I’d say the book deals as much with religious, social and political issues as much as scientific issues.

I also enjoy science fiction for the same reason, and think it has played a big role in opening my mind over the years.

Gonna have to finish it now. Then we can discuss it.

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[startpoor]

I just finished reading Crucible. I HIGHLY recommend it to everyone here. Short, beautifully written, and lots to chew on. We could make a years curriculum out of it.

Not going to write a full review here, but why I liked it: I suffer from an identity crisis within mormonism. Outwardly I’m very orthodox. However inwardly, I’m pretty much a non believer. After losing my testimony in JS, and seeing the church differently I tried to find “pure mormonism” which basically meant worship free of corporate baloney. This brought a severe amount of distrust and distaste for everything LDS and made me very antagonistic and hurt my spiritual relationship with my wife. Crucible lays out pure religion and mormonism’s contribution to it and lays out how it makes religion relevant to a secular world. This is a more unifying and practical pureness.

The book didn’t make me a believer, but is helping me find my identity again.

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[startpoor]

A friend of mine asked me today what I thought about the church’s news release today. I was also surprised it made national headlines.

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[startpoor]

Sunbelt red,

Specifically do you mean deciding between staying and leaving the church? Going to a different church? Staying at church but being openly authentic? If this is your quandary, I echo what was quoted above, that making a choice on what you believe is not permanent. It’s okay to give one path a try. You will be somewhere different a year from now. (Kind of like rebound dating.)

From personal experience, I chose to admit to myself that I don’t have a testimony (even though I hadn’t studied everything out very far) and admit that to people close to me, but find a way to go about church anyway, authentically. It brought inner peace, but lots of external turmoil. Not sure I could’ve done it any other way though. And I was much less thoughtful of what I was doing than you are. I did it without thinking about it.

I also echo what Ray said about life being a journey of never ending searching. Wherever you feel like standing that brings you peace and happiness, you still have the freedom to investigate and move somewhere else.

Beat of luck.

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[startpoor]

Yeah, I feel fine about it, but have had to redefine missionary work: rather than sharing my beliefs and inviting people to church, I engage in interfaith dialogue and promoting church service projects, and I do these for their own sake, not with intent to convert.

Side note: Though my church is still missionary crazy, they have done a few things right: proselytizing is strongly discouraged at service projects, and we have monthly open houses at the church where we share our beliefs and values with those who want to learn more–missionaries are NOT allowed at this meeting

[startpoor]

journeygirl wrote:

This is a pertinent topic for me lately too. I suffer from chronic fatigue and nothing I’ve tried has helped. I’m so tempted to use coffee, but my husband would flip out and I live in a heavily Mormon area so I’m hesitant to get caught. I’ve most often used eating to recharge my energy but that usually means high sugar content too. I don’t get why using sugar as a drug would not get me in trouble when it is a lot worse for a body than coffee. Anyway, if anyone has healthier suggestions for increasing energy, please share. I’ve tried exercise and raw foods diet but it doesn’t help.

If you haven’t seen your doctor about it yet, go see him/her. There are lots of possible reasons–anemia, depression, low thyroid, etc that could cause it. If everything is normal, keep up the diet and exercise and eat foods without simple sugars: they will make you very tired indeed

Update on my situation: I have been drinking coffee and tea regularly still and I maintain that it has blessed my mental well being more than avoiding it has, but it has definitely come at a cost–it still troubles my wife. I wouldn’t recommend starting if it would upset a spouse deeply. I might switch to caffeine pills–that is a good suggestion.

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[startpoor]

I’m glad you brought up the issue. It’s serious for me too as this falls in my bucket of “why the church is bad” which for me is important to define so I can maintain my sanity at church by speaking up against the bad and supporting the good. Otherwise I just sit silently and leave angry.

My one liner above was directed at the double speak of Elder Oaks coming off as sympathetic here in the states, while simultaneously promoting hate elsewhere.

One of my favorite authors/people is a board member for the National Organization for Marriage–a like minded bigoted organization that fights against gay rights. I had to stop purchasing anything new from him because I could no longer support his royalties in good conscience.

I still his books and essays (of course I’m talking about Orson Scott Card here) because he’s still a good person in many ways and he is a talented person.

If it were up to me (which it isn’t) my household would not pay tithing, only fast offerings.

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[startpoor]

Dallin H. Oaks: support the law of the land

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