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mormonheretic wrote:
Are you asking “what’s the difference between Snuffer and Palmer”? I’m not clear exactly what your question is.
What I’m saying is that Grant Palmer (along with many others of course) conveys the message that the foundation that the church is built upon, ie its claims to divine authority, are full of obvious holes. So, if one believes that, and continues on in that line of thought, the church seems like a superficial organization
because of what happened in the past.However, there seems to be another way of looking at the church, that there was a form of pure mormonism that existed during Joseph Smith’s time, before the church became too organized, or began collecting monetary tithes, where freedom of worship and community were embraced. There were no policies, it was a happy time
because of what is going on in the present.I like this idea of pure mormonism. I have been discovering much of it on the blog “pure mormonism” which is a great blog in its own right. A lot of it turns the teachings the church embraces now on their heads and points to the original intent of the teachings. However, taken to it’s extreme, it basically requires one to believe that JS never practiced polygamy. Which I would love to believe, but which is total bs. I think this line of thought came from Denver Snuffer, who is talked about quite a bit on the Pure Mormonism blog. For a while I was loving what I was reading, it put me in a happy place with the gospel. So I was just wondering if anyone had thought of these two views of mormonism as being mutually exclusive. It’s like the church can’t possibly do right.
It seems schizophrenic to argue that JS was a fallen prophet, or no prophet at all to make one point, and then to argue that the current leaders have strayed too far from JS’s teachings to make another.
Oh, and here’s a goodie, from LDS.org itself, the parable of the “Little Factory:” Quote:This power of creation affects your life several years before you should express it fully. You must always guard the power with manly wisdom. You must wait until the time of your marriage to use it.
During that waiting, what do you do with these desires? My boy, you are to control them. You are forbidden to use them now in order that you may use them with worthiness and virtue and fulness of joy at the proper time in life.
I wish to explain something that will help you understand your young manhood and help you develop self-control. When this power begins to form, it might be likened to having a little factory in your body, one designed to produce the product that can generate life.
This little factory moves quietly into operation as a normal and expected pattern of growth and begins to produce the life-giving substance. It will do so perhaps as long as you live. It works very slowly. That is the way it should be. For the most part, unless you tamper with it, you will hardly be aware that it is working at all.
As you move closer to manhood, this little factory will sometimes produce an oversupply of this substance. The Lord has provided a way for that to be released. It will happen without any help or without any resistance from you. Perhaps, one night you will have a dream. In the course of it the release valve that controls the factory will open and release all that is excess.
The factory and automatic release work on their own schedule. The Lord intended it to be that way. It is to regulate itself. This will not happen very often. You may go a longer period of time, and there will be no need for this to occur. When it does, you should not feel guilty. It is the nature of young manhood and is part of becoming a man.
There is, however, something you should not do. Sometimes a young man does not understand. Perhaps he is encouraged by unwise or unworthy companions to tamper with that factory. He might fondle himself and open that release valve. This you should not do, for if you do that, the little factory will speed up. You will then be tempted again and again to release it. You can quickly be subjected to a habit, one that is not worthy, one that will leave you feeling depressed and feeling guilty. Resist that temptation. Do not be guilty of tampering or playing with this sacred power of creation. Keep it in reserve for the time when it can be righteously employed.
Hopefully this hasn’t already been posted, I haven’t read through the whole thread. I heard a story from Rober Kirby about being a cop in Brigham City, Utah. He pulled over a man for speeding. The man gave him his liscence, registration, and temple recommend. Officer Kirby took it back to his car, wrote the man a ticket and checked his registration info. He finally returned to the man’s car, gave him his documents, and a temple recommend with the word “VOID” written across the front
These are great suggestions, thanks for helping me think through this carefully. I talked to my bishop about this lesson, telling him I wanted to discuss what an honest tithe can mean, and how I thought that the trend from leaders in the last several years had misleadingly implied that a “true” tithe is 10% of one’s paycheck. He didn’t seem to agree. He read the 1970 statement and told me he councils people to define income on their own, prayerfully. When I told him I thought it was abusive to suggest to people that they sacrifice and pay their tithes even when they can’t feed their family properly if they do, he told me he councils people to do just that, because the blessings are so important. Then he helps them make payments on rent, food, etc. throught the funds of the church. I thought that was an interesting approach, and that there is some merit to it. He also told me, regarding the usage of church funds, that there is a lot of expenditures on charity that go largely unnoticed, like the transfer of a large group of missionaries to, I think it was Haiti after the recent natural disaster, to offer strictly service for the remainder of their missions. Sometimes they give money to other charities who have more capabilities to serve. Another example he gave was giving high end surgical equipment and the training of doctors in an African country to provide laser eye surgery to its citizens. I replied that I wished the church were more open about its finances, and that it was held accountable. I think he made a good point about the charitable giving, though even if you add it up, it amounts to a tiny percent of its income.
I don’t think anything has grabbed my attention faster on this board than “New Adult Sunday School being piolted” So excited for this. My stake has something like an adult BofM class, but I was bummed to find out they meet Wednesday mornings
I haven’t taken the time to figure out how reddit works. When I do, that may be a good place to start. I’ll try your link though. I have been doing just that since moving into my new ward. I have never watched people as closely as I do now. I don’t know if anyone is actually part of staylds.com, but I slowly get a feel for those who may be feminists, or liberal, or well-read. I once heard my GD teacher say he had struggles with his testimony while researching history for certain lessons. I asked him about it later and it opened up the door for some very open candid discussions like the ones that go on here. I teach EQ so I listen to people’s comments and try and strike up conversations afterward, without being overt about it. It is nice to have people to talk to about these things face to face. I recently found out there is a book club that members of the stake are in. It seems to be invite only and is a small group, but after talking to my dad about it, he said there is a club like that in his stake too. It made me wonder if there are clubs like this in many more stakes across the country. Keep looking, you may find some people to talk to after all. Ann wrote:The way I look at it, the ball is in my court. I need to make constructive use of the new stuff on lds.org. I hope everyone who reads it gets into 2nd and 3rd hour and makes (“appropriate”) contributions. The first lesson of the 3rd hour Joseph Fielding Smith manual: “Chapter 1: Our Father in Heaven.” Turn the page: “Beginning with Joseph Smith’s First Vision, the true knowledge of God has been restored in our day.”
I need to speak up because others do. Over at newmormon.org, someone commented that his brother’s stake president came into 3rd hour to teach that
Pres. Uchtdorf really didn’t mean what he said in his conference talk; the point is (only) to “doubt your doubts.”:thumbdown: If we don’t take what we see as hopeful and forward-moving, and talk about it and teach it and champion it, who will?
Very well put Ann. Thanks for that.
Just got the HC study bible and I love it. Inexpensive too, considering the content and size. I was surprised that it didn’t have an index though. Do you happen to know why that is? Ray, thanks for your support and thoughts in the short time I’ve been a member here. Good luck with your New Year’s resolutions 🙂 If you want an autograph of President Monson, you can just buy a signed copy of his book at extra cost. Thanks for the link. Since posting, I found a thread here about BHR that was very helpful too. I find this man very interesting and can’t wait to read more on him. Has anybody found value in these articles? I mean, anybody here, who has already dug into these issues quite a bit? Do you read them and get any new perspectives? I read one and found it lacking in detail, but at least it was accurate and well written. Yes, it is a little sickening. Although I don’t know the nature of the reasons behind the Santa obsession by certain members of the family, some of the main ones involved are non-members who grew up in a member family. I can’t help but wonder if there is some clinging to the good old innocent way things used to be. But that is probably oversimplifying things.
