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When we lived in TX, there was a busload of elderly ladies who would come in from a local assisted living facility. They would sit together in RS and hijack the lesson every chance they got. Usually all they wanted to talk about was the movie Shenandoah.The teacher would mention something about love or sacrifice or whatever, and one of them would raise her hand and declare, “Everything you need to know about love can be learned from Shenandoah!” Then they’d spend the rest of the time talking loudly about the movie, mostly going over and over the plot. One woman would just start listing all the actors and the parts they played. The poor teacher would try so hard to get the lesson back on track, but they’d just talk over her. The RS president talked with them, but nothing changed. No one knew what to do with them. I enjoyed RS so much. Those ladies were hilarious! In a ward we visited this summer, DH spoke up in class to question something. The lesson was on following the prophet, and was proceeding down normal he-can-never-lead-us-astray lines. DH quoted D&C 68:4, which basically says that when prophets are moved by the Holy Ghost, their words are scripture. He asked how we can tell when they have the spirit and are speaking prophetically, and when they’re not. He mentioned a couple of “doctrines” that used to be preached and have since been changed, like the priesthood ban. The teacher didn’t seem to know what to do with that, so he kind of brushed it off. (To be fair, he seemed nervous teaching anyway and probably anything off his script would have been ignored.) However, a couple people came over to talk to DH afterward and thank him for his comment, saying it had made them think.
Quote:Why not treat it like any other rite of passage, and have your son baptized for family unity?
That would be fine with me, but DH is against it. He would prefer the kids not be at church at all, and really wants to avoid having them officially on the records. However, we’ve got some family situations that make him feel pretty scared about making waves right now by telling everyone. When it comes down to it, I don’t know which direction he’ll go.
DS wants to get baptized, but we haven’t talked much with him about any alternative. DH is afraid that he’ll do it just because that’s what his friends do, and because he’s always been told that’s what happens when you turn 8. I can’t disagree with that fear. DS is a big people-pleaser. And if I truly believe what the church teaches, that the age of 8 is one at which children can make up their own minds, then DS should be able to explain and defend his choice to his father. I think there are going to be a couple of interesting conversations between the three of us before it’s all settled.
Quote:The nice thing is that issues of testimony and commitment are rarely urgent unless there is some kind of immediate choice in front of you — such as whether to be worthy for a child’s near-future marriage in the temple, etcetera. And depending on the age of your kids, that may not be on the table right now.
It’s not so urgent as an upcoming wedding, but DS turns 8 soon. He wants to be baptized, but DH is against it. Our families don’t know what’s going on, but it will definitely be noticed if there is no talk of baptism soon after that birthday. Then the questions will start, and I don’t know what I’ll say yet. Both our families are likely to take it pretty hard. Even DH is scared to tell them.
Thank you, everyone. Mornings are sometimes the hardest time for me; it’s overwhelming to face the full day ahead while feeling like I do. But I read your replies this morning and they meant a lot to me. My sweet kids decided to surprise me with breakfast today too, since DH is out of town and they wanted to help me out. Between the two, I’m feeling more supported and loved, and maybe I can manage to do the things I need to. Quote:I think you need to sit down with each other and discuss your relationship and how it will operate in a mixed-faith marriage. You should be able to feel good about your faith without feeling “on edge”. He should be able to be at peace with where he is without the need to ‘fix’ you. In my experience, there is give and take needed from both parties. I would suggest counselling, at least for you and maybe for the two of you as a couple.
Part of the problem is that we’ve discussed it to death for over a year, without coming to any lasting conclusions. Not like DH is constantly saying/doing hurtful things, but he’s not a subtle person. He’s one of those people who makes it obvious what he thinks of something, even without saying a word. It’s only been a minor annoyance in our marriage until now, but it’s caused a few bumps in his career and his relationship with my family. Also, he’s having a hard time making up his mind about what he wants to do. He has enjoyed attending the UU church for a while, but they asked him to take their class to become a member, and he’s balking at that and isn’t sure if he’ll go back. He’s agnostic now and he would rather not attend any church, but he thinks the UU would be good to help me and the kids transition away from being LDS. He was going to go talk to the UU minister this week, and also visit his workplace chaplain, but he got busy and didn’t do it. I was frustrated. I want him to clarify what he wants to do so we can move forward.
I think counseling is definitely needed. DH doesn’t love the idea, but I think I can get him to go if I press the issue. I just don’t know when. He’s busy, and he won’t want to make time for it. As for myself, yes please! I would have been there months ago if it weren’t for this move. The summer was so hard. We spent 3 months living out of suitcases before we finally arrived and moved in. I hoped my emotions would settle down when we got here, but it hasn’t happened. I think that even with everything I still need to get done, I’m going to have to be forceful about bumping counseling up the list of priorities.
Thanks, everyone. These are all good points to discuss as we talk all this over and come to our decisions. I know I don’t post much, but I’ll probably be more active in the next month or so as we’re sorting all this out. It’s been a long time coming, and now that it’s here I still don’t feel prepared. I really appreciate your experience and opinions.
Quote:I recommend coming to a clear understanding with your husband.
Will he alternate with you to the LDS church on the other weeks? Would it be ok for him to Join the UU church or do you anticipate perpetually attending as visitors? Do you know what would be done in your home in respect to FHE? What about when the kids come of age to be baptized or receive the priesthood? Modesty standards? WoW? Garment wearing?
I prefer that these and many more questions are explored up front to prevent misunderstandings later.
We haven’t worked out all the details yet. We’re trying to figure out options.
DH doesn’t plan to go to church with me at all. He will probably come for social things, assuming they have Christmas parties and such, but that’s it. He’s grateful that I’m considering attending the UU church every other week, but he’s not insistent on it. It was my idea, because I want to be able to talk with the kids about it and know what’s going on.
I assume we’ll continue with FHE, since I think DH likes it as much as the kids do, but we’ll take most of the religious aspects out. It’s okay with me if he joins the UU church, but I’m not going to. Whether he wears garments (yes as of now, but I think it won’t last long) or sticks to the WoW (he doesn’t plan to – I’ll be surprised if he hasn’t gone out for drinks by the end of the month), those are his decisions and things I can’t control.
Our DS is turning 8 very soon, so I worry that this will be a bad time to start switching it up church-wise. However, the alternative is to stay in the LDS church until after his baptism, which doesn’t work either since DH prefers it not to happen at all. DH agrees he can be baptized if he’s really determined to, with no prompting from me. I don’t know what will happen there.
The thing is that I’m not sure what else to do. DH has made it clear that he doesn’t want to attend the LDS church, and that he won’t force our kids to go if they don’t want to. They seem to like church overall and don’t fuss about going, but if they have a choice between attending with Mom and staying home to play Legos with Dad, I’m pretty sure I’ll be sitting alone. Attending the UU church is a compromise on DH’s part, since he doesn’t feel he needs any church. His hope is that they’ll see different sides of religion, so they won’t be brainwashed in Primary. My hope is that Sunday will still be dedicated to God, and they will still be familiar with the LDS gospel.
You know that saying about how a good compromise leaves everyone unhappy? I think DH and I are going to have a lot of those….
Quote:I’m interested to hear from many of the lurkers who read, but are content to not join the conversation, but keep coming back to read.
– What brings you to read other strangers’ thoughts?
That’s me. I come lurking around about once a week or so, but rarely comment. I don’t feel like I have much to add, as I’m a TBM, but I like to come and read.
I started (and posted an intro) a few months ago, when my husband and I were dealing with his FC. In the wake of some other big life changes and decisions, he deliberately put it on the back burner soon after that. It was just too much to deal with, and neither of us wanted to feel pushed into choices we weren’t ready to handle. I still come now because I’m sure it’s not over. I know he still doesn’t believe, and of course it will come up in the future. It’s something that I still think about a lot.
Because we don’t want to bring it up again until the rest of life has settled down more, I come here sometimes when it’s on my mind. I like to read the intros and other posts that let me know how people deal with these changes and issues. The perspectives shared are so varied and interesting, they help me feel comforted that my own family will get through this. I know you’re all strangers to me, but your problems/views/advice/etc. remind me that neither my husband or I are crazy, and neither of us is alone in how we feel.
Hello, Grudunza. I’m not a regular contributor here, but I’m a faithful lurker. I especially love reading the intros and learning the different stories. They help me feel less alone. I haven’t commented in a while but yours really spoke to me and I wanted to say hi and welcome. Quote:I feel it’s important for people to know that they can be faithful members and fully belong and serve and be blessed in the body of Christ that is His church even if they accept evolution, have a beard, disagree with some particulars of policy/history, etc.
I couldn’t agree more, and I couldn’t have said it better. I think the perception of what is “acceptable” in the church is often skewed, and some people seem to think standing out or having a different opinion on
anythingis wrong and needs to be corrected. I consider myself a TBM, but I’m there with you on nudging the tent doors a little wider. And I had to laugh at your beard and colored shirts setting you apart from the rest of the flock. It reminded me how, as a YW, I always kind of had a thing for the YM with the colored shirts at church. Especially with suspenders. Not sure now if I liked the colors, the boys, or just the fact that they stood out from everyone else. Funny that I married a white-shirt-and-tie guy who has since stopped believing, and as far as I know, those other boys I liked are still happily wearing their colored shirts to church. (Not at all sad I married DH, but the very idea of judging TBM-ness by shirt color……
😆 )Sorry I didn’t come back yesterday. Life and all. Thank you for all your responses. I’m happy to see that so many of you feel/felt worry over the eternal family. When DH thought I shouldn’t stress about it so much, I wondered if it was just me who put such an emphasis on it. Sorry I’m going to ramble here, but everything you’ve said has made me think so much. I’ll reply to just a few, in kinda random order. Quote:Heber13 wrote:“I wish spouses and leaders alike would understand the position of someone who begins to doubt or not believe, and that it doesn’t label the entire person as bad.”
I agree, and this bothers me. I especially don’t like it that, as wonderful as you all are, I have no choice but an anonymous internet forum if I want to talk to anyone other than DH about this. Wish there were someone I knew who I could trust to understand and help me sort through it all. But I’m afraid of the implications if I talk to anyone at church, and my family would empathize, but I’m afraid they’d look at DH differently afterward. And my friends outside of church would listen, but not really understand. We both feel isolated, from each other and everyone else. I’m so glad you’re here!
Quote:West wrote:“Out of curiosity, have you told your DH any of this? Like, has he asked you why you stay, and have you told him honestly why?”
I have told him. That period of doubt in my life had never come up before. I hadn’t even thought about it for years, but we’ve discussed it now. He knows my testimony, that I love the church, and that I’m scared I wouldn’t be happy without it. I think he doesn’t like it, because choosing something like that just out of emotion (both peace and fear) doesn’t make sense to him.
Quote:journeygirl wrote:“I couldn’t help but think about the relationship improvement workshop I’ve been teaching. Next week we are going to be discussing how to talk to our partners about the most difficult types of issues. Our workshop material is based on the research work of Dr. John Gottman. I wondered if you might be interested in his book, The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work.”
It sounds helpful. I’ve got it on hold at the library. Thanks.
Quote:Mike wrote:“I’m interested to know, what is your definition of “the eternal family”.”
Hmm. That’s tricky. Definition-wise, I’d say that it’s a family in which the familial relationships last forever, and we get to see each other often. But I don’t know just what that will look like. In my mind, it’s DH and me together, progressing and learning in various areas, much as we love to do now. I imagine our children, grandchildren and ancestors nearby, or at least very accessible. Guess I basically see it as getting to have the people I most love around me, and all of us being able to share in the joy of our own and the others’ journeys.
Quote:Daeruin wrote:About baptism, tithing, etc. That’s one reason I think your husband could benefit from being here…..There are lots of ways to look at things beyond the traditional, orthodox way. If your husband has time to read and research church history or theology enough to be having a crisis of faith, maybe he can sacrifice some of that study time to come here and get some alternative viewpoints. It couldn’t hurt and may help—a lot.
I’ll try. Part of the reason he hasn’t stopped coming to church is that he feels he doesn’t have enough time to thoroughly research right now, and he wants to be sure. But I think this forum would be worth the time it would take, even if he couldn’t spare much.
Quote:Heber13 wrote:“When we have hope, we can push to find ways to get to the phase where we accept things as they are, and find ways to reconnect and feel more depth in the relationships from such efforts.”
I am hopeful, and this is what I’m going for. Thank you for saying it so well.
Quote:If you don’t mind sharing, what causes you to cry in the bathroom? I don’t mean to pry. It’s just that when I was going through a faith crisis I had many moments where I’d cry alone and later come back like nothing was wrong once I got more composed. I’m not insinuating that you may be experiencing a faith crisis, I’m just drawing a parallel. It took forever to muster the courage to cry in front of DW but she couldn’t begin to help me until I did. To be blunt, you don’t want your husband to be fake for your sake, don’t be fake for his.
I cry because I get overwhelmed. I still believe in the gospel, and I feel like the eternal family I hoped for is slipping out of reach. That is incredibly important to me, and I thought it was to DH, but he’s told me that he never thought much about it, even when he did believe. Thinking of eternity just has never been a priority, and he doesn’t understand why I worry about something so far in the future.One of the things I most regret saying to DH during all of this was when he wanted to send me more things to read to help me see his side. He really wanted me to leave the church with him. I think he felt like that would solve all our problems. Anyway, I told him I’d read whatever he wanted, but that I don’t want to leave. I told him if I lost my faith through this, I didn’t see how I could ever be happy again, and that although I would always love him, I might not be able to forgive him for that. He was shocked, and has since backed off trying to convince me. While I appreciate that result, I know it was the wrong thing to say, because if I lost faith, it would be my choice. I can’t put my salvation on his shoulders.
So here’s where my faith stands right now. I’ve been there before, doubting and trying to figure out what to believe. It was back in college, before I ever met DH. Never told anyone about it, and worked out my answers alone. What I decided in the end was that although there were still troubling bits, I had more reasons to believe than not to, and that I was happier with the church than I would be without it. I haven’t thought much of it since then, until DH brought all this up. I did some soul-searching, but it wasn’t as hard as it was for me before. My same reasons for believing still apply. The things I love about the gospel far outweigh the parts that trouble me, and I find a lot of peace and comfort in it. I’m not someone who can say I know the church is true, but I can definitely say I believe.
I’ve got to run now, but I really appreciate the responses here, and I’ll be back to reply to more of them later today.
Quote:The problem is that many believers have a REALLY hard time with being accepting and nonjudgmental for those of us with unorthodox belief or complete lack of belief. From the tone of your comments so far, it seems that you don’t have that problem.
To be honest, I feel more comfortable here than I would in a forum of traditional Mormons. There weren’t many other Mormons around when I was growing up, and most of my friends through the years have either been different religions or not religious at all. I love that. I get bored hanging out with people who all think the same as I do. Like living in an echo chamber. But I feel a touch hypocritical too, because if anyone else said, “I don’t want my son baptized,” I could empathize and understand their decision. But when DH says it about our son, it’s harder for me to accept.One of the hardest things is balancing my response to his FC. On the one hand, I need him to know where I stand and that this is really difficult for me, but on the other, I’m afraid he’ll try to change his mind and fake or force himself back into belief to avoid hurting me. I couldn’t live with that. Some days I feel pretty okay about things, so it’s easier. Other days I excuse myself and cry in the bathroom for a minute before coming back like nothing happened. Never really thought about how pervasive religious topics are – seems like anything can lead us back to that subject if we’re not careful. Don’t know if it’s always been that way and just wasn’t a big deal, or if it’s happening more on our minds because of this. Both, maybe.
Hope you and your wife are in a good place now. Does sound like we’re going through a similar time, and I like hearing about couples who made it through. I didn’t see it coming with DH, since he didn’t want to tell me at first. Had unwelcome thoughts pop into my head that were horrible to me, then and now, and I was ashamed from the second they came to me. Yes, I thought, “I wonder if we should get a divorce,” and then kicked it out as quickly as it came. Never even a semi-serious consideration.
Quote:Is there any chance he might want to join the board himself?
He’s suffering. I wish he’d come on here and talk with all of you. You’d like him. I’ve perused the forums for a the last week or so, and he’d fit in well. I hate for him to feel as isolated as he does now. He says he doesn’t have time, but I’m not sure. I think he’s scared of finding out more things he doesn’t want to know about the church, and that it’ll make things even harder. What I’ve seen will be nothing new to him. I hope to learn enough to help us out, and it’s been helpful already. Thank you.Thank you both for the welcome and the wisdom. So glad to find this site and learn that there are more people facing similar issues. Since we’re not telling any friends or family yet, we’ve both felt pretty alone. Especially appreciate that I’m welcome here as a believer. Doesn’t seem as common from what I’ve read on the forum for someone like me to join in, but everyone seems caring and nonjudgmental. Not like I don’t know pretty much the same things DH does. He keeps giving me more and more to read, and I always do. I think he’s hoping I’ll change my mind, but then he’s disappointed when we draw different conclusions from the same literature. Funny, but he was surprised that I didn’t jump right in with him when he started down this way. True, I never loved the mid-week meetings and never felt I needed it for the social aspect, but the church was always important to me. If anything, now I feel like I’m becoming more Mormon, because the responsibility of showing that example to our kids is all going to be on me.
This morning he asked me if I’d have married him if he hadn’t been LDS, and I had to say no. Ouch. He was really hurt. I tried to explain that it doesn’t mean I don’t love him or that I regret it, but he was still hurt. Honestly, I was looking for a temple marriage, and if he couldn’t do that, it would have ended our relationship. I didn’t think that was a secret. He doesn’t seem to remember that he was a TBM at the time, and his answer would probably be the same. He says it wouldn’t. I don’t know. Guess we’ve both been making assumptions about each other for a while.
