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Roadrunner wrote:
On a separate but related note. We recently had a stake fireside about how YW are walking pornography for YM when they don’t dress modestly. My daughters ate it up and loved it and even though I tried to explain to them it’s not their responsibility to police men’s thoughts they bought into it 100%.
RR,
No offense, but I am somewhat amused at how you attempt to teach your kids a more moderate approach and yet are undermined by the church fairly often (it seems like you have mentioned this a few times in a few different posts)…i feel like you should change your name to thecoyote instead of RoadRunner
🙂 All fair points…if you can’t tell my new faith house sometimes isn’t as well thought out as it should be. Good to have others perspectives which helps me examine these points from another angle. I really have no interest in taking away others helpful stories. To be honest, it might be really nice and probably a lot more comforting to think the way Mary does. I personally can’t do it, and in fact am a bit jealous of that kind of faith.
I guess the most I can do is act in a way that might be the answers to someone’s prayer, and if they want to attribute that to God intervening in their life, I am happy to act as the link.
I am with you DJ as well. Recently a friend of mine was on a plane with his dad, mom, wife, and sister flying out to Utah to his brothers graduation. His mom had a heart attack on the plane and died (I attended the funeral this past Saturday). Really? That was somehow in the plan? He couldn’t have waited a few hours?
I think my biggest issue with this is if you do believe in the God helps me find my keys, then everything else must be attributed to Him as well. If you attribute all good, then all bad must be attributed to Him. I don’t think you can have it both ways. Thus, I have a strong belief in agency, but most things are pretty hands off because those are the rules. Agency and choice are paramount.
I can’t even fathom believing that God helped someone find a boat to go fishing on the weekend.
*Opinions are my own
SD, What talk is that by Elder Oaks?
I have to give a talk on Personal revelation this month. It’s really outside my wheel house because I don’t feel like I have ever had personal revelation on anything (other than perhaps feelings of gratitude and love but not as a testimony about anything other than a feeling of hope that we are a part of something bigger than ourselves). So my experience is much different than RiverSong’s. I haven’t ever felt a yes or no to anything, so I am walking blind here
Had a good conversation with a friend over the weekend; he also has a complicated relationship with the church (I seem to be finding people like myself all over the place. Funny how you start to see things that were in plain sight the whole time) and he called himself a happiness seeker; I like that.
Sorry, I just can’t let this thread die out. I really enjoy hearing about the good experience people had. I have been using the sacrament the last few weeks to think about someone I can be of service to. As a result, had a great lunch this last week with a fellow doubter in my ward. I don’t think he has shared his experience very often, so hopefully it helps him to know he is not alone.
I got to hang out with an investigator during sacrament today. He reeked of smoke (not that that’s important, just made me glad to have someone a little rough around the edges there) but was an interesting guy. I hope he comes back.
journeygirl, The experience you had still bugs me…I hope he is not looking down on you. I think we all need to recognize that imperfection goes both ways.
How many people would the room fit normally? What’s typical attendance like at the conference (overall)?
Hey journeygirl, That doesn’t sound right to me. Mind if I ask some clarifying questions?
If your husband answered that yes he has a TR and he feels “worthy” that should have ended the conversation right there.
If the HC had not asked the specific question and had just extended the calling, would your husband have been good with accepting the calling?
I have extended callings and I never ask about worthiness. If someone has an issue and they feel they can’t accept the calling then they can say so in general terms. I have not had anyone confess anything to me but if they had I would refer them to their bishop or SP. And if the SP ever asks me to ask a specific worthiness question when extending a calling I would tell him no thanks; if he has a concern he or the Bishop can work it out with that person.
Also, if the specific “sin” (whatever that means) is something outside the TR questions, then it absolutely should not have been asked at all especially by a HC.
I understand your frustration. Please don’t give up on the church yet. But I would set up a meeting with the SP with you and your husband, talk it through with him, let him know how it made you feel and why it was unfair and that it really made you sad to be treated in such a way. You absolutely have that right to voice your concern and perhaps the SP doesn’t realize what the HC did, and if he does, then it could be an opportunity for him to see how that process affects people in real life. I would also stress that the best approach is to increase understanding, and to afford the SP the compassion and love that was lacking in your experience.
Please keep us up to date. If you would like to discuss further you can PM me.
-SBRed
Hey SD, I’m sorry that you have been experiencing difficulty, but also glad you have found some solace. Perhaps that experience has given you some additional insight and appreciation for things that others of us (mostly myself) take for granted.
You bring up a great question and it’s something I struggle with as well: to live in the moment. It’s the old cliche, life is a journey not a destination, and I feel like I have focused a lot more on the destination over my life.
One thing I will say about my faith transition is that I have started valuing the moments more, simply because I have no idea what’s next. My lack of knowledge has, in effect, compelled me to be more conscientious of trying to be “here” a lot more since this might be all we have. Still working at it
Awesome Ray! Great that she was able to have those experiences, but I’m sure your ecstatic to have her home again.
Great points. Ray, agree completely. The idea that someone has to be ready to be perfect before getting baptized seems a bit over the top.
It reminds me that my father, who is a convert, couldn’t quite nip his smoking habit in the bud. The Bishop didn’t care and let him get baptized anyway thinking that the relationship with the church would be more beneficial and at some point he would quit (which he did).
Seems like a pretty good way to approach things. Perhaps its this whole mentality we have that once a person is baptized they have some greater light and if they now sin against that light they are in a more perilous position. But that, IMO, would seem to negate our teachings of the mercy of the Creator and the whole point of the organization of the church.
My wife and I were talking during the week about how we weren’t being spiritually fed at church, but today was a very good Sunday. Sacrament talks were about Patriarchal blessings. We had a fantastic youth speaker who gave a very well prepared, thoughtful talk. It is a great aspect of the church of how some of these little things we take for granted teach our youth excellent skills.
The last speaker talked about the story of Lehi and used his journey to the promised land as an analogy for our Patriarchal blessing. And he told his very personal story of how his father was diagnosed with Lou Gherig’s disease and how his father worked with his hands and his final act before the disease took away his abilities was to build his own coffin. He related how his blessing gave him comfort in dealing with his father’s death and the health implications it might have for him. It was very moving and powerful. I felt the spirit of his experience.
Our GD lesson was better than usual. I was able to contribute in making a few points about agency; that we should not abnegate our agency to others, and that we have the right to question our leaders and seek understanding in constructive ways for decisions that have been made that affect us personally. It is a subject I have been thinking about a lot this week (ties in to Ray’s podcast if you haven’t checked out that thread or listened to it).
-SBRed
My wife and I were talking during the week about how we weren’t being spiritually fed at church, but today was a very good Sunday. Sacrament talks were about Patriarchal blessings. We had a fantastic youth speaker who gave a very well prepared, thoughtful talk. It is a great aspect of the church of how some of these little things we take for granted teach our youth excellent skills.
The last speaker talked about the story of Lehi and used his journey to the promised land as an analogy for our Patriarchal blessing. And he told his very personal story of how his father was diagnosed with Lou Gherig’s disease and how his father worked with his hands and his final act before the disease took away his abilities was to build his own coffin. He related how his blessing gave him comfort in dealing with his father’s death and the health implications it might have for him. It was very moving and powerful. I felt the spirit of his experience.
Our GD lesson was better than usual. I was able to contribute in making a few points about agency; that we should not abnegate our agency to others, and that we have the right to question our leaders and seek understanding in constructive ways for decisions that have been made that affect us personally. It is a subject I have been thinking about a lot this week (ties in to Ray’s podcast if you haven’t checked out that thread or listened to it).
-SBRed
