Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Ray, Been enjoying the Podcast so far
:clap: . I haven’t finished it yet, but a couple items I really liked:The comparison of Settlers and Explorers. Both have unique qualities, both are needed, but sometimes there is tension because the motivations are different (probably a lot of explorers on this site
Also the points about King Noah and how we was a good king/bad king based on those whose motivations aligned to his goals. But the broader point of good leadership is that a good leader is someone who helps those they have influence over to become more Christ like (in a spiritual sense) or help people progress forward in a positive way (be kinder, more generous, less judgmental).
I have listened to Jared’s podcasts for a long time and have used his material in preparing Gospel Doctrine lessons in the past. His last few podcasts really bugged me (which I could post on later if anyone else has listened to them) but this weeks were really good. Enjoyed hearing your voice!
-SBRed
As my kids are small, attention spans are short. We do a variety of things (watch or read the children scriptures, living scriptures, board games). My oldest who is 6 loves these books:
http://www.amazon.com/ValueTale-Multiple-Value-Tales-Book/dp/B000OFI0BW/ref=sr_1_3/187-0108175-5693905?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1406464528&sr=1-3&keywords=the+valuetales ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.amazon.com/ValueTale-Multiple-Value-Tales-Book/dp/B000OFI0BW/ref=sr_1_3/187-0108175-5693905?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1406464528&sr=1-3&keywords=the+valuetales The set we have is the one I had as a kid. Great stories with a great value (or moral) attached to each of the stories. She now knows the stories of many interesting people and when there is an opportunity to teach a value in real time I can often say things like, “remember the value that we learned when we read the story about Helen Keller”, and she know’s what I’m talking about. These have been great.
I’m sure there are other similar story series out there, but we have these and I really like them.
Thanks Ray! It’s great that we can come here and discuss the things that bother us, but more importantly the fellowship and the brotherhood here to help us to do things that will make us happy, kind, and grateful.
Great advice.
-SBRed
Leap wrote:Unknown wrote:I like myself more when I try to build my faith by reading, praying, and serving. So when my faith is weak, my new motto is, “Hope and Serve”.
Certainly do what makes you happy. You have chosen a good motto. You certainly can’t go wrong with genuine service. I have emphasized hope in my own life a lot lately. I hope certain teachings of the church are true, such as life after death, eternal families, etc. I don’t feel comfortable with the word “know” anymore. But the word “hope” really resonates with how I feel. Thanks for the uplifting post.
Like!!
Great motto, and I am with you. I don’t “know” anything, but there are some fundamental things that I “hope” in that keep me going. And service makes me feel good, no matter which side of the fence I am sitting on today.
Old-Timer wrote:I agree completely, SunbeltRed. I wish Bishops felt empowered to try new things, within reason – but defining “within reason” is part of the issue, always, in every organization.
I think it also is important to look historically at how we got where we got – and take responsibility (speaking of the general membership) for the results of our complaining.
We have correlation largely because of a lot of really off-the-wall stuff that was being taught at the local level decades ago. Yes, it stifles creativity –
but I think every single person here probably doesn’t want full creative license to be exercised by MANY of the people they know at the local level. Correlation stifles us – but it also stifles the opposite extreme. If we want “full freedom of expression”, we need to be willing to grant that same freedom to the rest of the membership – which means those who live in generally conservative areas already need to be ready to buckle up and hold on tight, since the most outspoken traditionalists would have free rein to create and present lessons that match their views even more than the current lessons might. Personally, I could handle meetings that were completely open, no-holds-barred, passionate, intense debates – but I understand completely that such an environment at church would be really bad for lots of people. In the end, I’m saying we need to focus on what we can do, individually, in our own local congregations – and, for every person here, that is something. Exactly what it is will vary from person to person and location to location, but there is something – even if, in extreme cases, that something is not attending. I just like to try to do something rather than accept doing nothing or eliminating things that I know, with absolute certainty, quite a few other people really need – like Sunday School.
Good points Ray. Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I hope in my calling I can have some influence in creating that space for people. I also know my wife and I sometimes don’t feel very spiritually fed, thus this (the bloggernacle) definitely helps.
Welcome Steve-o! You are in a similar spot to many of us here. I think focusing on the things you do believe is very helpful.
No easy answers on how to navigate, but I’m a big fan of the quote DJ posted.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and experiences.
I think this is why this is so complex, what would work well for some might not work as well for others. Again, I have no answers, but I think there should be room to experiment (like maybe only once a month we have primary during SM). Bishops should be able to adapt to the needs or desires of their congregation (within reason) and try different and new things.
Old-Timer wrote:Fwiw, writer63, those denominations also tend to be the ones struggling the most to engage youth who stay actively involved as adults. I’ve looked at the membership data, and this is an extremely difficult, complicated issue.
I still say, however, that if we made our meetings spiritual and had fun, engaging, meaningful activities, I think much of the issue would be resolved.
Ray, I think this is my broader point. Let’s try some different things and see how they work. Share best practices across stakes and regions (Innovate!!). Also I think we could have more meaningful meetings if we were actually able to talk about meaningful things; so focus SM on Christ. Instruction should be exploring the broader themes of our theology (I read your lesson postings and your youth lessons sound 100X more interesting than our current GD lessons. We have very Orthodox teachers) and let’s explore some of the messiness of the scriptures and our past. Those lessons are interesting! (but again perhaps good for me, not so good for the rest of the flock). I know our HPGL has said something to the effect; we are really good at vertical revelation, not very good at horizontal revelation (as in learning from each other).
DarkJedi wrote:I agree with your ideas, SBRed. I’m not actually sure we can reach the conclusion reached in the article with the data presented (overall membership in England is up, for instance), but that doesn’t mean it deserves no attention.
1. I think we don’t have community centers because they’re expensive to run, plain and simple. It’d be a great idea, though. I bet if we had them they’d only exist in the Corridor and perhaps some cities with fairly large LDS populations like Washington.
I’d add to your list that I think the church would do well to be more open and friendly with other churches. In this part of the country most communities have something like a council of churches where the various ministers meet together, perhaps monthly, and discuss how to share their resources to really help people. It seems to work here. Granted the LDS church is not generally invited – but we don’t ask to be part of it, either.
DJ,
1) Agreed that is probably why, and would possibly only work in areas with lots of members, but its worth experimenting with. I know where we live lots of families do pre-school and all the best pre-schools are at the local churches. Our son goes to pre-school at the local baptist church
🙂 . Just seems like a no-brainer to try this out in a few places.nibbler wrote:I read the comments to the article in the OP. Fascinating. Lot’s of interesting perspectives in the comments.
Yes. The comments were extremely interesting. That’s what got me really thinking about it.
Roadrunner wrote:At least once a week I hear a reference to “sifting of the wheat from the tares” as if driving people away is a sign of success. I don’t have statistics to back it up, but I believe that it will become harder and harder to keep younger generations involved in the LDS church.
There is so much the LDS has to offer… I hope we can grow and innovate.
Agreed Roadrunner. I can also understand why as a culture we might hunker down, and honestly I don’t have any good data and the article references one area of the world. It may be that my present perspective is clouding the issue and I’m not seeing it clearly. But I have many friends my age (mid thirties) in my ward and stake who are similar to me (it varies but the general idea is we need to open up more and we do many things that are just Utah culture centric.)
I guess that’s a way of saying I have no idea what the cause and effects are and how to help.
Old-Timer wrote:It’s easy to forget that we are in a time of widespread disassociation from formal religions – and that the LDS Church actually is doing reasonably well compared to most other denominations.
That certainly doesn’t mean all is well in Zion (nowhere close), but this is an extremely complex, world-wide issue right now. It reminds me a lot of the description of Alma, Jr.’s generation in the Book of Mormon.
Ray, I think this is part of the crux and why I don’t have a good feel for where things are or where they will go. Lots of other religions are struggling as well. There is a good case the pendulum will swing in the other direction (think religion in the early 20th century in England) but who knows when that will be and what the fall out will be in the LDS church in the meantime.
Sheldon, I am with you. I was a go to as substitute for GD for a while and I would bring in RSR and lots of other outside sources. I would not teach very controversial things but would make comments about multiple first vision accounts (not go into details). I got compliments from a member of the SP told to him by his wife who attended our ward.
I have a good friend who taught the way you did also be “released.” He would also get lots of positive comments from people. I think a lot of people crave the deeper connection with our theology and doctrine. IMO, our leaders underestimate members capacity to deal with sticky topics because we’ve been raised in a culture to not question. But I don’t think a lot of people are getting what they need (as the article linked above talks about).
I also see it from the other side, that might be really great for a smaller minority but might be poison for the majority. I don’t know the right way to strike that balance. But we definitely need to move to a more open, thoughtful, and questioning teaching IMO.
In addition, reducing the meeting length, or a varying schedule each month would help. As I suggested on the other thread, having Primary during sacrament meeting (teachers could switch out each week) so that adults could get something more out of Sac. meeting (having three small kids sac. meeting is almost worthless, and when I am gone to another ward on Sunday for my calling it is completely worthless for my wife. except the actual taking of the sacrament).
My two cents…
Dax, Thank you for your thoughts. You have caused me to think about things in a different perspective.
I am upset about your friends situation. Was your friend able to appeal to their SP?
I know my SP sided with my friend and his wife in a dispute with their Bishop. I also
knowmy SP would not stand for someone having their TR taken away because a member liked a post on FB. In my calling I work closely with Bishops, and some are much better than others, some are much more open minded. I’m sorry for your friends situation and I understand your frustration.
-SBRed
I have heard the same from my SP. And my SP is similar to yours in he is more concerned for the one, and he is a good man, so I believe him as well. Old-Timer wrote:I think God has a plan for each of us – the exact same plan:
To take all eternity, if necessary, to turn us into gods.
Other than that, I have no freaking clue about the details.
This might be one of my most favorite things ever said.
Hi Theflea, This is a good place to discuss and talk through what you are going through. I know many here have been in or are in similar situations. Some of use are still in it and working through our own concerns.
I am reading RSR right now (a little more than half way through). Interesting how people in different places see different things in the narrative. Would be interested to compare notes later.
Best of luck on your journey. Feel free to reach out as needed.
-SBRed
Mike, Mike wrote:What kind of reaction did you receive?
Anything negative?
I got a lot of positive reaction. No negative that I could tell (although if anyone had an issue with it, being that we are pretty passive aggressive in the church I doubt anyone would say anything.)
I had one sister come up and tell me it was exactly what she needed to hear and it was very uplifting to her. That made me happy to be able to help in that small way.
The ward I spoke in was the ward that I had previously been assigned to as a part of my calling so I have a lot of good relationships with people in the ward. It was interesting to speak to people after and hear the different pieces that stuck out to them.
writer63,
writer63 wrote:I’d like to share this with my family and stake leaders, but I haven’t figured out a way to explain where it came from.
:crazy: If you want to send me a PM with your email I can send you a copy and you can just say, hey here is a talk my friend gave last week. We can create a back story if needed
😆 -SBRed
