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Hey ConfusedMolly, I’m not sure why you need to tell them anything.
ConfusedMolly wrote:I still consider myself a Mormon and I attend sacrament meeting every week that I can. I believe in temple covenants, baptism, the prophet, priesthood, etc. However, I do a lot of things that most mormons would consider “bad” (we don’t pay our tithing, occasionally don’t wear our garments–especially on hot days, watch rated R movies, don’t attend all of our church meetings, don’t hold callings, support same-sex marriage, question doctrine, shop on Sundays, etc.) I don’t feel like any of these things take away from my relationship with Heavenly Father or my standing with Him, but I know my family would be VERY upset if they knew any of this.
From what you said here, the only TR question you would probably have an issue with is tithing. Even though I have a pretty liberal view of what constitutes tithing, I would not be able to pay anything and be able to answer yes. Perhaps you and DH might want to do some soul searching on that question and see if you can get to a place where you can answer yes. Good threads in the forum on that one.
You believe in more than I do, but I still feel i can answer in the affirmative to all the TR questions. I had a friend joking around with me about something silly yesterday at church (he is more Orthodox but a good guy). I joked back and at the end said “and you know what, it’s actually none of your business.” We both laughed and called it a day.
Part of the transition process is coming to the recognition that your journey is yours. There are things my wife and I will do around family that match their more Orthodox views, but that is the price of maintaining positive relationships, and a price we happily pay (although we don’t live close to any family, so not a toll we have to pay often. Not sure what your situation is.)
You will have to decide what is best, but to quote the academy award winning movie The Waterboy, “What mamma don’t know won’t hurt her.”
🙂 -SBRed
willb1993, Others have offered great advice.
We are here to help in whatever way we can as an informal support group. I think that if you can get away from the current situation, that might help.
Also realize, all those people who appear to be happy (and they probably are to some extent) are also dealing with their own issues. They may not be as external, but everyone has stresses and fears and concerns. I’m almost hitting the top of the hill and I don’t have anything figured out yet. I am a late bloomer, as they say, and it took a while to get my bearings. My point being, it’s Ok that you don’t have everything figured out yet either.
If anyone is interested, I have posted the talk I gave today in Sacrament meeting. I am a little hesitant to do so, and as Joseph Smith said, if their are any errors, “they are of men.” I make no claims or guarantees of the content. I received some positive feedback and so I post this with the hope that other might be uplifted. Some of you may see some of your words, thoughts, and suggestions in the content/ Thank you, I greatly appreciate your insight.
Would be interested to hear your thoughts (please don’t be too harsh
-SBRed
Good Morning Brothers and Sisters,Let me share with you the message from the Stake Presidency about our speaking topic this month:
“Brethren, this month’s topic is one that will need to be approached with sensitivity and prayerful consideration. We have provided for your preparation several different talks on the topic of Same Sex Attraction, Inclusion, and The Eternal Nature of Marriage. Our desire is for you to review these topics and prayerfully develop a talk that incorporates each into a single message.
Your goal is to help those within our stake understand the position of the church as it relates to the eternal nature of marriage as outlined in The Proclamation to the Family while still maintaining an attitude of loving kindness and acceptance of all as brothers and sisters in The Lord.”
As I mentioned to a friend what I would be talking about this month, his reply was something about walking into a “mine field.” Perhaps, but I think we will be uplifted together as we discuss the true essence of the gospel.
To start, here is the Church’s position on marriage and same sex marriage: This is taken from the Topics session on LDS.org and this document is titled: Addressing Same Sex Attraction
“The Church’s doctrinal position is clear: Sexual activity should only occur between a man and a woman who are married. However, that should never be used as justification for unkindness. Jesus Christ, whom we follow, was clear in His condemnation of sexual immorality, but never cruel. His interest was always to lift the individual, never to tear down.
In short, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints affirms the centrality of doctrines relating to human sexuality and gender as well as the sanctity and significance of marriage as the union of a man and a woman. However, the Church firmly believes that all people are equally beloved children of God and deserve to be treated with love and respect. Church apostle Elder Quentin L. Cook stated, “As a church, nobody should be more loving and compassionate. Let us be at the forefront in terms of expressing love, compassion and outreach. Let’s not have families exclude or be disrespectful of those who choose a different lifestyle as a result of their feelings about their own gender.”
And from the church’s website Mormons and Gays.org:
“The experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. With love and understanding, the Church reaches out to all God’s children, including our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.”
And again from the previous document:
“Accordingly, the Church favors measures that define marriage as the union of a man and a woman. However, “protecting marriage between a man and a woman does not remove Church members’ Christian obligations of love, kindness and humanity toward all people.”
So let me make re-clarify a couple of points:
• The Church teaches that the family is ordained of God
• The church’s position is that sexual activity should only occur between a man and woman who are married.
• The church’s position is that marriage is the lawful union of a man and a woman
• Many individuals do not choose same sex attraction
• Regardless of the church’s stance on marriage, we are obligated as Christians to love, be kind, and understanding to all people.
These are the official positions of the church.
Are some members going to have different opinions than the official church position? Yes. We are a big church. We cast a wide net. People will have different viewpoints and feelings about certain topics.
In a statement by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve published on June 28th they said:
“We understand that from time to time Church members will have questions about Church doctrine, history, or practice. Members are always free to ask such questions and earnestly seek greater understanding. We feel special concern, however, for members who distance themselves from Church doctrine or practice and, by advocacy, encourage others to follow them.
Simply asking questions has never constituted apostasy. Apostasy is repeatedly acting in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its faithful leaders, or persisting, after receiving counsel, in teaching false doctrine.”
We are encouraged to seek understanding. D&C 107 vs. 7 says:
7 And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom, seek learning even by study and also by faith;
Whatever our feelings on the doctrines I have discussed, we can advocate for tolerance, kindness, and good will with those of differing viewpoints. Inquiry, debate, and free expression of ideas are hallmarks of a free society; coercion is acted out when losing the battle of ideas, and thwarting free expression through authoritarianism. For those that preach tolerance, it must be a two-way street, and we are completely within our right to ask for such. As Elder Dallin H. Oaks has observed:
“Tolerance does not require abandoning one’s standards or one’s opinions on political or public policy choices. Tolerance is a way of reacting to diversity, not a command to insulate it from examination.”[11]
Let us error on the side of kindness but always fight for the freedom to discuss, think, and advocate for ideas and policies that we deem valuable.
Let me spend a few minutes talking about the importance of families:
Throughout time strong families have served as essential institutions to teach and convey knowledge to future generations about morals, ethics, traditions and values that are vital to robust and free civilizations.
Marriage, in a civil sense, is an affirmation of a couples love for each other, a contract to work together, provide for each other and their children which comes with legally binding obligations. Marriage and the rearing of children within the obligations of marriage is the most optimal institution in a world governed by agency. Unless we believe that authoritarianism is the best relay point to transfer the necessary knowledge to the next generation, the family is the best alternative.
The Proclamation on the Family says:
“Marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children. . . .
The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan.”
This is a theological and spiritual view on marriage with temporal implications. From a secular perspective, the data on marriage also tells an interesting story. The creation and sustainment of marriage provides the best opportunity for children, not only in an eternal sense, but for temporal growth and personal fulfillment.
Over the last decades there has been an erosion of intact families.
“In 2012, 40% of all births in the United States were to unwed mothers.[8] More than 50% of births to mothers under age 30 were out of wedlock. Further, the marriage rate has been declining since the 1980s. These trends do not bode well for the development of the rising generation.”
A study found on fatherhood.hhs.gov says:
Children raised by single parents have lower levels of social and academic well-being (17), (18) and more behavior problems (19) than those from intact families. “…adolescents who have lived apart from one of their parents during some period of childhood are twice as likely to drop out of high school, twice as likely to have a child before age twenty, and one and a half times as likely to be ‘idle’ – out of school or out of work – in their late teens and early twenties.” (20)
Charles Murray, in his book Coming Apart, wrote an in-depth analysis comparing different survey and data trends. In one observation based on his analysis he says:
“The raw material that makes community even possible has diminished so much in some parts of the country that the situation may be beyond retrieval.
That raw material is social trust-not trust in a particular neighbor who happens to be your friend, but a generalized expectation that people around you will do the right thing.”
We can help reverse these trends by advocating for strong familial relationships, helping those in our community, and working to make our marriages and families to be places of happiness, learning, growth, and faith.
One of the most important things that we can do as members of the church is to create as Celestial a marriage as possible.
The Proclamation of the Family states:
“Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities…In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation.”
As couples we are obligated to help each other as equal partners and to decide as a family what will work best for us; whether that be more traditional roles, or whether that be a working mom and stay-at-home dad, or somewhere in between. We have the ability to receive our own personal revelation of what will work best for our family.
And any relationships that are built on forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, teamwork, and wholesome recreational activities are bound to last for the eternities.
To cite Charles Murray again he notes:
“The relationship of marriage to happiness is simple as can be. There’s hardly anything better than a good marriage for promoting happiness and nothing worse than a bad one.”
The ideals of the LDS Church around family formation and the eternal nature of families can work really well for a lot of people. But it can be a very difficult concept and idea for others. What happens if someone’s situation falls outside this neat little box? What if we were sealed in the temple but now our husband or wife is no longer active in the church? What if our children have chosen different theological, personal, or spiritual paths than our own? What if we have family members, children, friends who are attracted to members of the same sex?
For many of us, we feel left holding a bag of disappointments, burdened by our inability to reconcile a God of agency and unmet promises of obedience. I have no easy answers for you, only a willingness to stand with those in need of comfort and faith and hope in an expansive view of the mercy of our Creator.
Chieko Okazaki, former first counselor in General Relief Society Presidency said:
“I don’t want anyone to misunderstand what I’m going to say next. The First Presidency has made its opposition to same-sex marriages very clear; as a member of the church I support them in their position. But I want to stress that we can be opposed to a piece of legislation or to a practice and still behave with courtesy and decency toward those who hold other opinions. I would not want anyone to use the First Presidency’s stand as an excuse for being hateful or disrespectful toward others….. It is very likely that every person in the Church knows someone – a family member or a friend – who is gay, lesbian or bisexual…I think there is much we do not understand about how such conditions come to be, or what resources are truly helpful. In the meantime, nothing has suspended the commandment of Jesus to love one another and to bear one another’s burdens.
In my view it’s understandable that the depression and suicide rates among gay people, in general, and in the LDS Church are significantly higher than in the general population. Many of our brothers and sisters feel alone, isolated, different, and in pain. Really loving someone who is different, in any way, isn’t just a nice idea or a good concept; in many cases, it might bring a measure of joy to someone who has precious little happiness and, literally, help save lives.
I remember one particular service activity as a youth when we lived in South Florida. Our activity was to help clean up a hospice center where people who had contracted HIV and AIDS lived for a while before they passed away. This was during the early 90’s when AIDS was relatively new to the public and was wreaking havoc among the male homosexual population. I remember feeling conflicted during our service project. Many of the people who had inhabited the hospice were there because of choices that were not in agreement with the doctrines of our church and so why should we be spending our time at that particular place. On the ride home I expressed this conflict to my father and in his wisdom affirmed the centrality of the gospel message to me. His reply, and I am paraphrasing a bit here, was, “Son, we are all sons and daughters of God. As such we are all deserving of His love and it doesn’t much matter what choices others have made, we should serve and love everyone.”
I know that many of us can feel out of place, unsure of how to assimilate into such a performance based culture. Many of us are at different points on the spectrum in our faith journey, our life experiences, and the growing pains of mortality.
I find comfort in Elder Wirthlin’s words:
“Some are lost because they are different. They feel as though they don’t belong. Perhaps because they are different, they find themselves slipping away from the flock. They may look, act, think, and speak differently than those around them and that sometimes causes them to assume they don’t fit in. They conclude that they are not needed.
Tied to this misconception is the erroneous belief that all members of the Church should look, talk, and be alike. The Lord did not people the earth with a vibrant orchestra of personalities only to value the piccolos of the world. Every instrument is precious and adds to the complex beauty of the symphony. All of Heavenly Father’s children are different in some degree, yet each has his own beautiful sound that adds depth and richness to the whole.
This variety of creation itself is a testament of how the Lord values all His children. He does not esteem one flesh above another, but He “inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; . . . all are alike unto God.””
Our message as members of the church should echo the message of Elder Uchtdorf in the October 2013 General Conference. He said:
“To those who have separated themselves from the Church, I say, my dear friends, there is yet a place for you here.
Come and add your talents, gifts, and energies to ours. We will all become better as a result.”
And to those of you with doubts:
“It’s natural to have questions—the acorn of honest inquiry has often sprouted and matured into a great oak of understanding. There are few members of the Church who, at one time or another, have not wrestled with serious or sensitive questions. One of the purposes of the Church is to nurture and cultivate the seed of faith—even in the sometimes sandy soil of doubt and uncertainty. Faith is to hope for things which are not seen but which are true.7
Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters—my dear friends—please, first doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith.8 We must never allow doubt to hold us prisoner and keep us from the divine love, peace, and gifts that come through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.”
I love that line; ‘We must never allow doubt to hold us prisoner.” Wherever we are at with our faith, let us act on the things we do believe. If all you believe to be true is that we should be charitable with each other, that sounds awesome! Act on that. Don’t let the other things hold you back from helping and serving others. If all you believe to be true is that we are a part of a great cosmic unity, then let that belief flow into action of viewing others as a part of that journey and loving your neighbor.
And he addresses those who worry about living up to the standards:
“All the more reason to come! The Church is designed to nourish the imperfect, the struggling, and the exhausted. It is filled with people who desire with all their heart to keep the commandments, even if they haven’t mastered them yet.”
I interpret that to mean, no problem. We come to church to work on our relationship with God and to work on being better. Don’t worry about what other members think, your journey is yours. It’s not our place to judge. And if we are being judgmental, call us out on it. And for heaven’s sakes, let’s cut ourselves and each other a break.
More from Elder Uchtdorf:
“Some might say, “I know a member of your Church who is a hypocrite. I could never join a church that had someone like him as a member.”
If you define hypocrite as someone who fails to live up perfectly to what he or she believes, then we are all hypocrites. None of us is quite as Christlike as we know we should be. But we earnestly desire to overcome our faults and the tendency to sin. With our heart and soul we yearn to become better with the help of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.”
And this!
“If these are your desires, then regardless of your circumstances, your personal history, or the strength of your testimony, there is room for you in this Church. Come, join with us!
If you seek truth, meaning, and a way to transform faith into action; if you are looking for a place of belonging: Come, join with us!…If you are tempted to give up: Stay yet a little longer. There is room for you here.”
Elder Orson F. Whitney, former member of the Quorum of the Twelve said this:
“…The Shepherd will find his sheep. They were his before they were yours-long before he entrusted them to your care; and you cannot begin to love them as he loves them… Our Heavenly Father is far more merciful, infinitely more charitable, than even the best of his servants, and the Everlasting Gospel is mightier in power to save than our narrow finite minds can comprehend.
The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. … Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God.”
I believe as C.S. Lewis that:
“It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses…There are no ordinary people. You have never talked to a mere mortal. nations, cultures, arts, civilizations – These are mortal, and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat. But it is immortals whom we joke with, work with, marry, snub, and exploit.”
I believe we are eternal and as such we have an obligation to treat others as Christ has instructed us to do, and to love regardless of others personal choices. That doesn’t mean we have to agree with others choices, but we must love as best we can. The gospel of Christ is one of faith and hope, charity and love, experience and progression. Let us remember the example of Christ in our interactions with others.
In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
I have a completed version of my talk if anyone is interested. No guarantees attached. Just PM me if you would like a copy.
This, for me, has been at the root of my doubts. When you think about all those who have lived on the Earth and then think about all those who have been a member of the LDS Church, the #’s are so miniscule that it seems like an absurd idea that the LDS Church path is the only path. I love the theology of the work for the dead as it mitigates against this, but that work is a pretty inefficient way to ensure the whole of human history has an opportunity to accept “The One True Way.” Not to mention, that then means that someone who wasn’t a member their whole life and could have done whatever in mortality, then accepts “The One True Way” in the next life, gets a free pass, and those of us “luckily” enough to be born in the church will be condemned because we didn’t live every jot and tittle of the law? Clearly I don’t know anything for sure, but based on reason and faith in an expansive Creator, I lean heavily towards the Means to an End. More important to have charity and a relationship w/God, IMHO, than what religion you are. Makes me a tough sell to the increased missionary efforts.
-SBRed
The list is good. I’m sure they are aware, but pointing out that access to information is a big part of all this. There is no way to put the genie back in the bottle. Please let me know how it goes. I have a Stake calling and have been thinking a lot about approaching my SP and offering to help with those they encounter going through this. I think Stakes should definitely create a safe space for people to talk through this without being judged. The fact that your SP is thinking about this means that its an issue they are deeply concerned about.
If you have any materials or presentations that you don’t mind sharing, I would love to see them.
Best of luck,
SBRed
Fun post! I love talking politics, but it doesn’t usually mix well at church which is why I don’t bring it up there. One of the things I have found a bit odd is that a lot of the more non-literal Mormons seem to lean more progressive politically. Perhaps that is just my perspective or the more progressive Mormons have a louder voice among the non-Orthodox voices. Would be interested in others perspective on this.
I often find myself politically in no-mans land. I would say I lean more moderate Libertarian. I fiercely believe that freedom of speech and worship is paramount and abhor authoritarianism in all its forms (even the smiley we are just here to help kind). I lean fiscally conservative, but socially moderate. Which puts me at odds with many conservative LDS, and at odds with the more big government progressive Mormons.
And I would say that reading “Capitalism and Freedom” by Milton Friedman was a spiritual experience.
SBRed
Hi jaboc84, First off, welcome to StayLDS. Glad you found us.
I don’t have a good answer for you either. You will find that to be a pretty common theme here.
🙂 In am in a similar place as you and so I can relate. Mid thirties, three kids (all 6 and under). My calling is at the stake level (not in the SP). I have had many doubts and questions for a long time and my current calling was a catalyst for bring up all these issues to the forefront. Along with nibbler, my “faith transition” is still a work in progress.
As DarkJedi would say: Take it slow, don’t dump all at once, and focus on what you do believe.
So perhaps a couple things to think about:
1) I know for me, I really love the gospel and the church (two different things). There are things that happen and get taught at church that I don’t agree with, but overall there are a lot of wonderful people there and I know I would not be as spiritual and service oriented without it. So if not at our church, where?
2) A friend of mine told me recently that the Bishop in his ward attempted to to put a boy in the Addiction Recovery Program because he confessed to masturbation. IMHO a destructive and harmful act to the soul of that boy. So if you are not serving in your calling who would it be? (this is perhaps an extreme example, but something I have been pondering about the last couple of days). Perhaps you might be able to bring relief and help to a suffering young man in his time of need and empathize in a way that someone else cannot. I know its a reason I stay in my calling. But you must decide what is best for you, and if you need space, then by all means take it.
3) This faith rebuilding process is exhausting and time consuming. But its also amazing! I feel like a new convert. I am able to examine and turn my faith around and see how it appears from different angles and perspectives. I am able to engage with church history and the scriptures in a way I have never been able to in the past. My thirst for knowledge from all good books is open in a way right now that I shut down before because I was scared of how it would affect my “testimony”. Its a journey.
4) There are many good posts here about how to work through this with a more Orthodox spouse. Luckily my wife and I are on the same page, so that makes things a bit easier, but others here are in a similar situation as you. Seek them out for advice and perspective.
Not sure that helps. Looking forward to hearing about your journey.
SBRed
Thanks for the poll hawkgrrrl. Results are not surprising. When those two options are put side by side, I will always choose self reliance, but I think there is a good middle ground there. Kids also need to learn good general norms of behavior they should follow, times to speak up, times to not speak up, times when you do things just because, times to have the self-confidence to say no. I doubt I’m breaking any controversial ground here.
As I mentioned in a previous thread – Brothers showing up last Saturday to help a single mom load her moving truck. 20 brethre, 20 minutes, all done. On Sunday the GD lessons was on King Solomon. The teacher referenced a CES talk that went through a list of some things can be strengths and turned into weaknesses. I thought that was a very interesting perspective and brought in a good way to look at how we balance things in our lives. I know that as I am working through my faith transition, I sometimes get caught up in leaning too far to one side, but the lesson reminded me that moderation in all things (even my frustrations) is probably a good approach.
Thanks Jedi, good post topic.
DJ, Amen!
His issue is one of my biggest issues. It’s the thing that I just don’t get about Mormonism, well I get it I just don’t agree with it. I have made mention to this many times in this forum, but I just can’t believe that a loving Heavenly Father would want to divide families like that, IMHO. It doesn’t make any sense to me and I can’t believe He would want our belief to take precedent to treating our family and others with charity and love. IMO, His love and power to save is more expansive than we can understand.
I enjoyed the way Kirby approached the topic. Thanks for posting!
I echo Ray and SD – it absolutely allows for free agency. I have thought about agency a lot. Elder Maxwell wrote a book, “All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience,” in which he essentially argues that God know all of us so well that he will know exactly what we will do and what decisions we will make. Even though it appears that we have agency, because we can’t see the big picture, He knows exactly how each of us will make all our decision because He knows us perfectly. It was one of the first times that I read something that I not only did not agree with, but seemed so antithetical to the concept of agency that I could not accept his thesis.
Which made me very sad because I really love Elder Maxwell and I love his writing; he is one of the great masters of prose the church has had. He has written many other things that I love, but I just couldn’t agree with him on that.
2nd Nephi Ch. 2 is one my favorite chapters in the BofM. Even though I am not sure where I stand with the BofM it is a chapter that rings true to me. The idea that opposition must exist so that we can have a range of experience, and those experiences will help us know what makes us happy and what makes us sad. And by having experiences on both spectrum’s we can know the divine nature in ourselves and the divine nature of the universe. It is a principle that I love, and cling to even through uncertainty.
I am currently reading the book ‘The God Who Weeps.” The author makes the point that Enoch, in his conversation with God was surprised at God’s tears because Enoch had no concept that God wept over his creations and could be saddened by their choices. IMO, that is the God I prefer to worship; The One who gives us agency, and although He knows us so well allows us to make choices that can make Him happy or sad. In a similar vein, I know my children very well, I see their potential, and I often know how will they react to things. Sometimes they surprise me in the positive, and I am filled with joy. Other times their human nature gets the better of them and it makes me sad. I offer rules and sometimes consequences, but in respecting their agency sometimes they make decisions that I was not expecting.
Perhaps Elder Maxwell was correct in that if God is omnipotent, He is able to hold an infinite number of alternate timelines in his mind, and one of those is the path we will follow, but IMHO, even He doesn’t know which of those will be the one we follow. [Edit] Then again, I may be wrong about all of this.
🙂 Sorry to wax a bit philosophical and these ideas are perhaps even a bit outside the box for this site, but it doesn’t really help you with your question.
I would say that despite the feeling that you are boxed in, your agency exists. Perhaps one path will not be as pleasant as another, perhaps you see your choices as the least bad choice, but you have the ability to choose what that path will be.
During dinner with one of my boss’s many moths ago we started talking about religion. She was raised in a home with no religion, only liberal politics and picket lines. She felt equally trapped by having no religion, and force fed political beliefs growing up. She felt like she had missed out on something amazing and beautiful as a child for lacking that sense of community and divinity and now as an adult did not have a starting point or know where to look. My point being, you feel trapped because of your religious upbringing and others feel the opposite. It’s mostly just a matter of perspective.
