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Rob, I admire your friendship and I am happy that he is allowed to be included. I’m gladdened to see a decision that makes sense to all parties, sometimes hope can be narrow strand, I’m glad your friends feels that small tug of hope.
Truth be told, I can’t read the BofM right now, and not sure I ever will. If it could be discussed at church within the context of mythology and what can we learn from it, I might pick it back up, but I dount that will ever happen. In addition, I just don’t really find it inspiring. So I have set it to the side because I have 10 reading wish lists on my Amazon account and I have read a lot of amazing books this year that have been inspiring, informative and fun to read. If you don’t feel like reading it don’t, and don’t feel bad about it. Like Ann said, find your own watering holes, whatever they may be.
DarkJedi wrote:Thanks for the update. Glad we could be of help. Like you and many others I have also found comfort in being here and would not have made it from crisis to transition without the help of this site.
As you continue your journey I wish you peace. I am sure others can gain from your insights and your perspectives, so please do stop in from time to time, we’d love to hear from you.
nibbler wrote:I also express a thanks for the update. I always felt like I could relate to your posts and had noticed your absence.
Moving on; it’s healthy, it feels good. it’s one step of many in our respective journeys. Don’t be a stranger.
Thanks DJ and Nibbler, truly appreciate your friendship and thoughts and interactions we have had here. I’ll continue to lurk here and there.
I guess your wife has time to get used to the idea of being married to a Grandpa…what up Grandpa! Congrats!
Welcome! Epistomology has always been an issue for me as I was also someone who never felt like I received answer to prayers. The transition is tough, this place was so amazing as I started to explore my faith in ways that I hadn’t in the past.
I am also moved by the vasteness of our know universe and the infentesimal likelihood that we should exist and what that may or may not imply (I’m pretty agnostic and feel very similar to Einstein in my belief about God).
Glad you found the group.
I’ve made significant changes to how I think about tithing over the last year, and how I pay it. My “10%” is probably not what the church would like my 10% to be. During this adjustment period I got a new job and got a raise. As my tithing decreased, I was blessed (go figure). We have some of our tithing set aside each month to donate to different things or people where it seems appropriate.
For example the HONY (Humans of New York) FB feed was in Pakistan over the summer and highlighted a woman who has been fighting the brick kiln owners over working conditions and essentialy labor slavery. We donated to her cause and used it as a lesson to teach our children about some of the other trials and circumstances people face, and about gratitutde for our situation and our blessings.
I feel perfectly comfortable saying “Yes I am a full tithe payer”. I believe I am, I feel much better about my contribution now.
Loved that Kirby article, posted it to my FB page. I told DW that if I go inactive it will be from pure boredom (the last month has been excruciating).
DarkJedi wrote:I suppose he thought he was doing great by reminding the PH about women’s meeting – but I had to interject that women’s meeting is the first session of GC. He stammered a bit then dismissed us to our quorums.
Love it! And mom3, I loved what you said about the smokehouse story. I wish I had been smart and quick enough to say something like that.
Awesome!! Our HPG was the same lesson. It turned into a pornography discussion. I asked if we could be frank and so brought up some points that really bother me:
The church talks about this way too much in my opinion in that
The youth hear this message and I think for many it makes them feel ashamed and broken
In our house we plan on being open about everything, nothing will be taboo because it was in my house growing up and if it ever was discussed it was just you are supposed to act and feel a certain way because this book says so. No other feelings or consideratiosn were validated so I never discussed this stuff with my parents.
I don’t know what addiction means, and the church throws it around without any context, they don’t define it, so if a kid seems some stuff or looks at things a few times he probably thinks hes addicted because thats the message.
Our HPG leader has some sons that have struggled with pornography and he has a very open and kind approach. It’s not about shaming his kids, its about dialogue and helping them process throug their feelings and helping where he can.
I got some pushback, but not a lot. OVerall went better than it could have…they probably all hate it when I attend class. Oh well.
I have strong feelings on this – Despite my disagreement with someone joining a site like this, to have it made public and shame and destroy marriages and family relationships is more evil. Innocent spouses and children caught in the cross hairs and brushed aside as collateral damage. Are those engaging in adultery wrong, yes, but I deplore those who work in anonimity (the hackers in this case) somehow feeling that exposing others anonymity is somehow a noble endeavor.
DarkJedi wrote:hawkgrrrl wrote:Someone made the point that this was really for a leadership meeting; it just got shared with the lay membership. The issue with that is that leaders are more concerned with higher level goals and trends whereas members internalize messages from leaders as applies (or doesn’t) to their own situation (not to a population which is where trends emerge). It’s like telling a group of salespeople selling cars that the real key is to get customer loyalty through referrals and getting people to buy a car for their kids also. But when you take that message out to the consumers directly the message is off. “But I only need one car.” “I already have a car.” “I can’t afford a car.” “I bike for health reasons.” “How greedy are they? I already bought one car. What do they want from me? Blood?” “I don’t have any kids or friends who need a car.”
It’s part of the video that’s supposed to be shown all the way down to at least the ward council level. I saw it in stake council, each bishop was given a flash drive and instructed to use the whole thing, both parts, in in their ward/branch councils. There was no mention of not using it during fifth Sunday lessons and so forth, and frankly some if it has some weight to it. I like Elder Cook’s plea to give sacrament meeting back to the Savior at the end of part one, for instance, and wouldn’t hesitate to share that with the general membership. I also liked Elder Anderson’s portion about the sacrament being much more than just renewing our baptismal covenants. I’m not so sure it wasn’t intended to be shared with the general populace – it’s not like those secret seminary trainings.
Same here, flash drives went out to the Bishops to train the ward council and use as inspired. DJ, I am with you, I think the first portion of the training of bringing more Christ to the worship service is good, I don’t disagree with it, in fact I think its a step in the right direction.
It’s the second part that has my hackles on edge, because I have seen my mom internalize the failure part of the message very deeply, so deeply that it is a reason I will probably never leave the church while she is still alive. Promote Sabbath Day, be my guest, in and of itself I think it can be a good thing, but lay on the “your and your children’s eternal salvation is at stake” rhetoric along with it and “the other guy” is getting ready to make an appearance.
Perhaps MGF’s have become the focus because they realize that convert baptisms in the West are hitting a wall and will probably continue to decrease (as a %of population) over the next many years. Thus, how do we keep what we have? How to attempt to stem the tide of return missionaries leaving the church? Patrol the borders, talk about dynasty, lay on guilt and shame at increasing levels. I’m just not seeing how this is going to appeal to people or help, but I’m not very smart and cannot see the future, so I don’t know seems to be a common answer I give a lot these days.
I’m so glad the author of the article stood up and was couragous. We haven’t had this training yet in our stake, it’s coming though. I’m sure it will be presented to the stake leadership first and I plan on being the voice of alternative perspectives. My parents did all the checklist stuff (FHE, prayer, scripture study) my two brothers left the church in high school, they are never coming back. My parents have been models in that blood and family are thicker than water and church affiliation. I see Elder Bednar’s words as broken promises and they ring as hollow as they are. If this is the best the church can come up with to stem the tide of those leaving, they are in dire straits.
