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Thanks Ray. Appreciate the feedback and good idea to not cite anything specifically, but help people understand in a more generalized tone. Also, Does anyone have any good stats, or resource for stats on #’s related to gay LDS and depression or suicide? Was thinking I could offer some data points to help people empathize with the internal struggles our brothers and sisters deal with and how it affects their mental health.
Great thoughts everyone! Much appreciated and feel free to keep them coming. If anyone would be interested I would be happy to post a copy of my talk here or send in a PM next week and would welcome some feedback. Let me know if interested.
-SBRed
Sacrament Talk Yeah, minefield might be a bit of an understatement
🙂 (Although my own personal views on the subject lie somewhere in between very orthodox and very liberal Mormon views, which I guess would still probably not resonate with most LDS church attendees.)
Thanks! Very interesting perspectives. I also think about the stories from the Book of Mormon, especially the Lamanites who had committed murder were able to repent of their sins. Now perhaps they were not under as much condemnation as David because they sinned in “ignorance”. In our class on Sunday someone brought up the point that we should have some sympathy for David. He was in a position of power and as with many people in those position you end up being surrounded by people who use you for your power and access, who never say “no” to anything you suggest, who create an alternate reality that tugs at your weaknesses and un-moors you from your moral compass. What would we do in a similar position of power?
I thought was another good way to look at it.
Curt, This is great! Somehow our 5th Sunday turned into a testimony of the importance of the ordinances so we didn’t get any of this. Would you mind if I passed this along to our Bishop? I will of course edit any references to you or this site and perhaps some of the commentary.
Want to make sure you would be ok with using outside of here.
Welcome! I have felt the same all or nothing before as well, but was able to take some time to sort it out. I will say for myself that the day that I accepted that “I don’t know” about any of this and I will no longer feel guilty that I don’t know was an extremely liberating day. But there is a rebuilding process that has to happen. I am still working through some of that and this site has literally been a God send (which makes me chuckle to write). Some days are up, some days are down. I am in the gray area, but its much more interesting here.
I was thinking about spirituality today and this thread was a much needed lift. One of the things I struggle with is spiritual experiences. I am very emotional and I find it extremely difficult to distinguish what is what. I cry at church, I cry watching those Budweiser welcome home soldier commercials, I cried during the final episode of How I Met Your Mother. So who knows.
However, I have many times while with my family felt pure joy. I have felt overwhelming happiness in those moments and I know I must be doing something transcendent by trying to be the best I can for my family. I fall extremely short, but continue onward.
But the reason I was thinking about spirituality was a conversation with the HPGL in the ward that I work with. I saw him at work today and he mentioned that the thing that keeps him up at night is the spirituality of the HPG and EQ and he indicated that hopefully I could help him increase the spirituality of the ward. I nodded my head and said sure, but have been mulling that over all afternoon. Which has led me to some thoughts:
What is spirituality? How do you increase it? How does someone like me increase it? What could I offer to more Orthodox members as a means for them to increase their spirituality?
This has led me to think about ways that I can increase my spirituality even if moving forward in an unconventional manner. Do you still find peace in the scriptures? Prayer?
Would love to hear people’s thoughts on ways you work on your spirituality and what suggestions I (or we) can offer more orthodox members without taking anything away from their faith.
Hi Aegetis, Glad you are here! I am in a similar place as you although I have more of an “I just don’t know” type of approach and have come to the conclusion that I wish I could know, but I just don’t think its in the cards for me. And I’m good with that.
That being said, I still conduct myself in a way that I can answer “yes” to all the TR questions. I believe good clean living is paramount which includes principles such as being the best father and husband I can be, love for my fellow man/woman, service, sacrifice, hard work, spiritual progression, etc… (many of the good and great values conveyed in the church).
So in some sense I am pretending if you look at what I do and what I believe from a Mormon Orthodox perspective, but I am not pretending when it comes to my spiritual journey. I am very serious about it, which is why this site is so amazing. I have wrestled with what to do about giving a blessing as well, but have concluded that the blessing is not about my faith, it is about the faith of the receiver. And if I am living in a way that I feel spiritually at peace and at harmony with my family and fellow man, I have no reservations about being of service to others. On the flip side I would not give a blessing if I were acting in a way that would make me feel uncomfortable answering “yes” to the TR questions. For example, some on here have a looser interpretation of the Word of Wisdom
But you will have to decide what is right for you
Not sure if that helps.
Ray, Agreed on the wording. They way I worded my last comment, would probably get a high number of Orthodox LDS who agreed, but if re-worded to convey my doubt about the absolute necessity of the ordinances (or at least a belief that if needed folks can get them later), would probably get a low response rate.
Roy,
Agreed on the tension. As I have stated, its difficult for me to believe that only test is this mortal life, but I do get your point that if “now” doesn’t matter than what’s the hurry. I’m not quite sure I have reconciled that yet, but I think it has to do with attitude. If I am trying to progress toward holiness in this life, whatever path that might be, and I have cultivated an attitude of love, then that attitude should carry me forward in the next life. If I have an attitude of nonchalance and indifference to the spiritual, then perhaps that attitude will hold me back in the next life. I think it will be more us than Him.
Not sure I have a completely usable framework yet, but my two cents…
Per this discussion forum is my view on the opportunity of post-mortal life progression or the idea of a more inclusive gospel a minority view? Just curious…
Old-Timer wrote:Anyway, he wasn’t pointing that at you in any way, and it wasn’t criticism. Really, it’s cool.
:thumbup: Yeah, I’m good! My reply probably sounded much more defensive in print than I meant it to be. If you knew me in person, you would know I was joking back. I do not get offended very easily so feel free to set me back on the right path as needed
🙂 And I hope all of that didn’t come off as anti-LDS because I am not at all. I am still trying to put some things back together and figure out how to navigate church life going forward.
I just find it a bit strange that people want to believe in such a punitive God. That’s all. There is another thread that has some good conversation on all this as well with some great commentary from Roy (can’t find the thread at the moment).
Have a great week everyone!
cwald wrote:Old-Timer wrote:Quote:If there is one path to it all, as a father I would give my kids an infinite number of opportunities to get there.
That’s why I don’t believe this life is the only chance we have…
That could qualify as apostasy and teaching false doctrine.
And the faithful have scripture and prophetic quotes to back it up.
cwald,
I’m faithful
🙂 I am assuming some sarcasm in your response?
And it’s not apostasy as long as it’s my only personal view and I don’t bring it up to anyone at church
Also, God already knows about it and so far I feel peace so not sure what those scriptures and quotes would have to say about that.
