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I think Judd also posted his “evidence” over at NOM a few weeks ago. The exchanges there were highly amusing. Talk went ok I think?…hard to tell sometimes and I think it was a bit edgy (I used a lot of a talk I posted here previously on revelation). There was no mention of the SCOTUS ruling and I was short on time so I didin’t include my statement from above. I went to 8 hours of meetings on Sunday and not one mention of the SCOTUS ruling. I have a feeling the pressure is going to get released this next Sunday.
I think Ray makes a great point. I amend my previous comment – probably best that it comes from you. Whether or not you offer additional commentary is up to you, but I personally would probably say something like “this is a potentially divisive issue, I hope we can appreciate and love each other even though some of us may have different opinions about this.” roadrunner, Thanks for posting, it was a brave thing to do. I agree that it is a huge missed opportunity and much of the younger generation is not going to go along with this. I wish the church could get out of their own way. Doing nothing, saying nothing would be more productive than this.
I also think that the SCOTUS ruling is going to create more division than we have seen in the past. I personally feel more inclined now to stand up and say “I support the SCOTUS ruling and I’m glad it passed” without caring as much what other people think. I think the law passing has emboldened people who previously sat quietly in fear, and it will take a delicate balance of charity and tolerance for all sides to work in unity together.
As for my advice for what you should do, pawn it off on a counselor. I have already decided that if asked to give a talk about this subject going forward I will politely decline, and state why, and offer an alternative speaking topic. I personally am not interested in being associated with these views.
-SBRed
I’m glad that you were able to have that discussion. I feel like this has come up in our stake a lot, and yesterday in HPG we discussed Sister Wixom’s talk. There were a few of us monopolizing the conversation but it basically came down to, got to love people, can’t judge them, and people will need space to process, there’s not a whole lot that we can do. Same here. I am giving a talk tomorrow, I prepared a few remarks about this…still contemplating if I should share or not. Maybe get people’s thoughts on this:
I know the SCOTUS decision on marriage equality this week has been big news in my circles, I assume it has been in yours as well. I don’t have much to say about it other than this:
The Church released a statement that said:
“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints acknowledges that following today’s ruling by the Supreme Court, same-sex marriages are now legal in the United States. The Court’s decision does not alter the Lord’s doctrine that marriage is a union between a man and a woman ordained by God. While showing respect for those who think differently, the Church will continue to teach and promote marriage between a man and a woman as a central part of our doctrine and practice.”
Even though this is the Church’s position there is going to be a diversity of thought, opinion and belief on this topic within our wards, families, and communities. I have friends who are Mormon and are marching in the Pride Parade in San Francisco today. I guess my only point is this, regardless of where we stand on the issue, kindness, love, and respect should be what we try our best to emulate. So let’s take it easy on each other and especially with each other in our church community.
“In an interview back in March of this year Elder D. Todd Christofferson said that individuals in the 15 million-member Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be in trouble only for “supporting organizations that promote opposition or positions in opposition to the church’s.”
Backing marriage equality on social media sites, including on Facebook or Twitter, “is not an organized effort to attack our effort,” Christofferson said in the interview, “or our functioning as a church.”________________________________________
The KUTV interviewer asked further if a Latter-day Saint could “hold those beliefs even though they are different from what you teach at the pulpit?”
Yes, the apostle answered.
“Our approach in all of this, as [Mormon founder] Joseph Smith said, is persuasion. You can’t use the priesthood and the authority of the church to dictate. You can’t compel, you can’t coerce. It has to be persuasion, gentleness and love unfeigned, as the words in the scripture.”
Christofferson echoed this sentiment in two January interviews with The Salt Lake Tribune.
“There hasn’t been any litmus test or standard imposed that you couldn’t support that if you want to support it, if that’s your belief and you think it’s right,” Christofferson said after a Jan. 27 news conference.”
The Gospel of John records that the night before Jesus was crucified, as he taught and participated in the sacrament, and washed their feet one of his last pieces of advice was to love on another. That’s how people would know that they were His representatives, that they love one another as Jesus loved them.
Chieko Okazaki, former 1st counselor of the General Relief Society Presidency wrote:
“Christ was born, he lived, and he died to teach us how to love one another and to love our Heavenly Father. The gospel that he taught was one of love. The cause of Christ is to increase the amount of love in the world today–the amount of love in our hearts, the amount of love in our homes, the amount of love in our offices and businesses, the amount of love in our communities, the amount of love in our chapels, the amount of love in our nation, and the amount of love on our planet.”
Let us be filled with love, with kindness, with peace and pray for these qualities in ourselves and others.
I’m just don’t think I can care about “The Sabbath” like we are taught. Sunday was the worst when I was a kid; locked inside all Sunday and only being able to watch Saturdays Warrior or read scriptures. If that is some reflection of the CK count me out, I’d rather party with the sinners. I don’t mind telling my kids I won’t be taking them to sports practice and games (if they want to play they can find their own rides), but I’m not going to hang out in my church clothes and be bored. Three hours of church is enough (and dang 1:30 p.m. church, it ruins the whole day).
This book is interesting, it is Adam Miller doing his own tuning of Romans, but is seriously amazing. It caused me to reflect on grace on Christ in a much different way than I had in the past. Highly recommended. SilentDawning wrote:Courageous effort SBR. I think you showed some great restraint, did the right thing in ignoring some of the comments and not letting them pierce your cultural “veil”, putting you in “open Kimono” mode, as Hawkgrrl puts it.
The part I didn’t understand was the part you described thus:
Quote:
I feel a connection to the diving though I don’t know exactly what that is (this is the answer that worries me the most)“diving”? Not sure what you mean or if that was a typo I’m not seeing properly. Can you clarify?
Based on the rest of it, I don’t see that you said anything that would make me label you as apostate, or even unorthodox, even as I adopt a TBM perspective.
Haha…yeah that should be “Divine” not “Diving”. Good catch! I guess that statement worries me the most because I did not quantify it…I said “connect to the divine though I’m not exactly sure what that is.” I think that can be scary for Mormons to have someone say they don’t exactly know what the divine is right? The theology of the religion is a deity with flesh and bone, but I didn’t say any of that. Perhaps they didn’t notice or so many other assumptions get rolled into an explanation that type of comment doesn’t really register, or they are like holy cow, how is that guy on the HC!
Either way, whatever. Maybe its good for the Stake and Bishops to have someone they can turn to with difficult questions or if their members have questions they don’t know how to or are uncomfortable dealing with and its a way for me to create some space for myself and others, which I hope is helpful.
Luckily I have two kinds in nursery and as the HP’s contemplated on how to flood the earth with the BofM I quietly stepped out and hung out with my boys in nursery. It was much more fun and peaceful. But seriously, listening to the HP’s attempt to work up the courage to flood the earth with the BofM was so sad. I mean, I think I would have rather had a tooth pulled than sit through a lesson like that again. I’m just glad they didn’t aske me what I thought; not sure what the response would have been when I replied “I don’t. I don’t think about it all.”
Wish I had written it…might give a similar talk when I’m ready to be released Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Happiness over obedience for me. In some instances obedience helps me be happy. Not murdering people has worked out pretty well, I think I’m happier for being obedient to that law. (Ok, silly example) Sometimes I’m obedient because I told someone I would be and that relationship is important. I do the best I can at my current calling because I like my SP (I have no idea if God exists or cares) and I care about being part of the community. Other things I’m not obedient to because I don’t care and being obedient to it doesn’t make me happier (Sabbath day for example. I just don’t care about it, we go out to eat sometimes, I go to the store, we go hiking and watch TV. We don’t sit around in our church clothes and read scriptures – that TO ME seems like pure hell).
So I say pick your spots, and do what works best.
Nibbler, best analogy ever!! Hilarious!
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Nibbler, What did they talk about that third hour that was so important non-married people’ couldn’t be there?
I find the worship of traditional family to be completely off-putting to me. It marginalizes others and IMHO it does not engender the type of charity for others situations that fall outside the small box of “traditional marriage”.
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