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Since there are no likes buttons I just wanted to say to everyone I really appreciated reading this discussion this morning. Its refreshing to read a balanced debate that offers one the opportunity to reflect on their own motives and opinions. Here’s my take on the not making people work. When they turn the lights on Sunday morning, they making people work at the Power Company. When you go out in public your causing the following people to work: Hospitals, ambulance drivers, police, gas station attendants. Making phone calls causes even more. TV, radio, the internet. Missionaries calling home for Mother’s Day even causes international work!! IT Professionals and customer service operators, etc…
I’m just having a little fun with this one
It may sound a little strange, but I feel relieved by your story. Relieved that there are starting to be more and more and men and woman who are questioning and struggling to make sense of it all. Because then I don’t feel so alone, and it gives me hope that as we support each other and continue to attend church that our influence will start to shape the future of Mormonism. My only suggestion is that if you enjoy Mormon Stories podcast to also listen to Mormon Matters podcast.
http://mormonmatters.org/ Its a little more tailored to discuss mormon topics with a panel of active non-correlated Mormons.I think the ironic thing is that we all want to be from free guilt (rightly so), but then we actually demonize sociopaths (rightly so) who are actually free of guilt. I guess this like most things, its not an either or proposition but its about finding the right balance, which goes right along with your statement of not having an “overwhelming” sense of guilt and shame.
I define honestly as being honest with the relationship I have with the other person. For example if its my kids (all below age 
I only tell them what I think is appropriate for them, and don’t feel like I’m being dishonest for not telling them something or not telling them the whole truth. For my employers, I’ve worked from some small companies before and when I decided to leave I would look for new jobs without telling them, until I found a new job and then gave me 2 weeks notice. The hard part was that you develop personal relationships with people in a small company and it feels like your lying to them, but I know I was being honest with the business relationship that I had with them. If I were stealing or falsifying my time sheet or something like that that would lying. When looking for a new job, and I update my resume and choose to present only the good and leave out facts that don’t immediately sell I sometimes feel like its being dishonest but then I apply the same logic and know its OK to sell yourself in the best possible light. With friends I don’t feel obligated to tell them everything going on with me and my wife, even if I’m telling them a portion of the story.OK, I think I listed several examples that most people would agree with and find that they do themselves as well. Someone could easily say I was rationalizing my dishonestly and I would have to agree with them. I have no problem taking a rational approach to how I live my life, and apply the gospel principles. Failure to do that leads to chaos and heartache. There are still times I’m too honest, and times where I probably should have been more honest. Pretty much the same as most I imagine.
So when I get asked do I am honest with my fellow man. I honestly answer yes, full well knowing that when my wife asked if the dress made her look fat and I said no that I am still an honest man.
I just went to my 2nd Mormon Stories book club meeting, and although I enjoy being amongst Mormons who can openly talk about what they truly think and believe, I still feel like an outsider because I am still a believer in God and plan on staying a member of the LDS church and actively attending church on Sundays, and I feel like its turned out to be a ex-mormons and people who wish they could be ex-mormon meeting. I then go to church and feel like outsider there too, because I don’t process things even remotely the same as I perceive others. I have some friends I’ve made there but not really on the intellectual side, they just aren’t that into thinking too deeply about all this stuff. I still find comfort in going to church (occasionally) and participating in the rituals but I also am in a “different” place intellectually then I’ve ever been before and sometimes I need feel like I can relate to others. Sorry if I’m making this all about me when this is your introduction thread. I guess I just wanted to let you know that I personally am encouraged to read your experience and relate it to mine. Maybe we should try to carve out a niche in the Mormon Stories community for those that are still wanting to “Stay LDS”.
I had to turn to wikipedia to get that one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_Dorothy I haven’t written an introduction yet, was actually just about to when I got caught up reading the new ones. I know I need to but I just wanted to say I really appreciate the tone and manner in which all of you give your answers, they really resonate with me. For awhile I wasn’t sure if I needed this forum or not. I wasn’t sure where I was heading. I’ve been reconstructing my beliefs for just over a year now, and am starting to settle in finally. I think I’m pretty much in sync with many of the things Brown wrote. I have started to develop the idea that although I’m open to the idea of the historicity of the BOM and visions of JS (etc…) I simply just do not posses the ability to “know”, but more importantly although it makes it easier to press forward with faith if you do have the mindset that those things are 100% accurate and True the real value of it is the myth/symbol/story, and regardless of what people believe or know that is all we truly have. From my reading and I’ll admit limited knowledge of the early history of the Mormons it was the actual existence of the BOM itself, not its not contents and not even Joseph Smith, that was preached and why people converted. It wasn’t until later that the Joseph Smith, The Prophet, and then later the first vision became significant in the proselyting efforts. At least that was my take away from Rough Stone Rolling, and one Jan Shipps books I read many years ago. Cadence wrote:
That is a good question “What is it”? If I had to go by my interpretation of the evidence, it is a global organization built upon a false premise that a boy of 14 saw and spoke to God and God gave him and only him divine direction on the management of his kingdom on earth. It may be a great organization that does many good things and that may be enough for me and many others but it is still an organization built upon a foundation of sand, and I have to acknowledge that.Based on the “accepted” history it appears that the “church” was actually founded on the fact that JS translated the BOM and not the first vision account. I would however agree with your analogy of it being built on the sand, and I think what I see a lot of people doing however is attempting to dig out the sand until the can reach the rock in order to build their foundation.
