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Basically the church should not get involved in legislation of morality. Of course this is what I believe and many others have the right to differ. I don’t want my tithe to go to support a vote for or against any legislation. If an individual wants to participate on either side…that is their right, but my tithe is to go to the church’s mission. This was a huge mistake by the church…not the first and probably not the last. I see gender as continuing into the eternities but being male does not make anyone better that anyone. I do not know what will happen in relation to gender identity, but I know that people who love and are committed to each other should be able to be married and have the same rights. Maybe that love is eternal as well…who am I to say otherwise. Very interesting discussion. Without traditions, I think the evolutionary process in religions would not take place. Within all religions, this process takes place. I know of Muslims who use wine and liquor, Jews who eat pork, Hindus who eat meat and so forth Personal choices, personal thought lead to differences in “depth” of practice in every religion. I was talking to a young man the other evening about a horse he might like to have. He was holding a beer in his hand and drinking it. As we began to talk, we started to make connections…where we are from…who we know. I mentioned a girl married to a fellow from his town and he knew her. “I just saw her in church this last week.” The LDS church holds persons from every level of practice…and should hold them with love and respect. I’m not sure any longer about the WOW being a requirement of the recommend. I’m not sure it should be taught as it is. It was a word of advice but Jesus did drink wine…the real thing…he also made wine…real wine. I have begun to question the sexist orientation of the temple covenant, I’m not sure I want anyone between me and the Lord (I am female). Especially a man because I don’t feel most men are any better than me. (I realize that is a very judgmental remark.) I do like order, but I have studied chaos theory and see how chaos moves to order. I think the church is in an evolutionary process…how else can we set up “the Kingdom of God” which will of necessity be a huge tent. I really appreciated the comments by Tom Haws in Chandler. I feel it is important for us to seek opportunities to worship and grow spiritually with those of other faiths. I think we will find we are really “brother and sisters” in the world. Being a convert, I had inspiration from the Holy Spirit long before I found the teachings of the LDS church. Spiritual feelings belong to all humanity. In my stage of faith, I really appreciated Orson’s comments: Quote:“It appears to me that your struggle is with the power of church culture, and the difficulty of swimming up-stream makes you think about climbing out of the water and walking up the shoreline instead. The only thing I can think to say about that right now is: What is more likely to cause someone to think about the direction they are swimming – a fellow swimmer going the other way, or someone that they can’t see walking out on the shore?
But my reason is not simply to try to turn the tide, personally I really like swimming in this pond, even if at times I’m overcome by the current of the masses. Lately I’ve noticed a few more “fish” swimming in a similar direction as myself, and it renews my energy to hold my course.”
Thanks Orson, I am really trying to hold my course. I can hardly wait to see our meeting enlivened with greater inspiration and better music and Holy Spirit inspiration and deeper more open discussions.
I for one feel this would be a very positive shift…diversity in many ways will assist the church to move forward positively. I for one am weary of a backward view from our leadership. My husband who is 70+ years old clings to this traditional viewpoint. It is really sad. The church is hampered by this backward view. We need to evolve in the action focus…focus on becoming the Savior’s hands in the world and making a difference for the living. My husband brought home a thought from a discourse he heard from a person over the temples who said women should wear nylons in church…when did what we wear determine our righteousness…we need to get over this kind of thinking. I am reminded of the Savior’s reference to “whited sepulchers which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness,” Matthew 23: 27. I wish we would get over this childish clinging to dead traditions and move into greater openness and actual application of Christian actions. I also would like to know who is going to be in charge of the nylon inspection team. This is very interesting. I wonder why this is any different than active members drinking Mountain Dew…I truly believe each individual should pray about the Word of Wisdom and follow what the Spirit reveals within what we are given. As polygamy came and then went, perhaps this will as well. I wonder what others think. I do feel moderation is very important. I believe women have something equal to priesthood…motherhood and womanhood. Perhaps as we allow the Savior to be manifest in our lives the need and ability to give blessings become available to us. Women are equal to men and priesthood in every respect…maybe even better. I really appreciate some of the descriptors for feeling the Spirit. I really liked quickening, such a cool way to describe it. I actually hear words in my mind. (Voices???) Hah! Now perhaps this compromises my credibility. I also have feelings usually during a conversation, during a talk, or when I meditate. Meditation I believe is essential. Sometimes I’m too busy shouting at God to hear the still small voice. I appreciate the remarks by hawkgrrl about the hierarchy. I think the feeling that we need rigidity in our leadership gets in the way. What we really need is the leadership of the Holy Spirit and application of this in our leaders. My perspective as a convert is at times surprised and disappointed in the rigid adherence to cultural mandates rather than the Spirit. When you read accounts at the beginning of the church, people were much different in meetings that they are now.
